Haves and have nots

[bittenyakka]

I have been thinking that across the CFS there is alot of money that is in brigade accounts that doesn't do much other than collect interest. I may be wrong but my observations in CFS have discovered that there isn't much in the way of larger things that brigades are allowed to spend their money on.(we buy printers, t shirts perhaps etc)

 What do you think of developing a system that enables brigades to buy more substantial things for themselves more in a less restricted fashion? some examples may include BA sets, another bay on a station. 

is this fair? would it be good to free up this money?

[pumprescue]

It was originally fund raised for those big ticket items that we are no longer allowed to get, the last one's to be allowed to spend it was Burnside, and in the end we ended up with an appliance that no one else can come close to getting resulting in what the title says haves and have nots...maybe the money should go to a central fund ?

Otherwise it will there collecting interest ??

[safireservice]

If you have done the hard (or sometimes easy) work to raise funds for your brigade you should be able to spend it on whatever you want. Within reason I suppose. Its always nice to have those items which CFS wont supply.

[misterteddy]

It was originally fund raised for those big ticket items that we are no longer allowed to get, the last one's to be allowed to spend it was Burnside, and in the end we ended up with an appliance that no one else can come close to getting resulting in what the title says haves and have nots...maybe the money should go to a central fund ?

Otherwise it will there collecting interest ??

you're filtered kidding right???....So you're happy to give away the $$'s other people have worked hard for, and reward lazy Brigades who dont get off their arse and look after themselves, how very Socialist of you.....unbelievable

Good on those Brigades and Groups that have made the effort to find extra funds to supply their communities with modern equipment beyond those caveman handtools that the CFS calls standard stowage. The only crime is a penny pinching Government and a weak as piss CFS management that has made it very difficult for them to do so

And, while we are at it.....theres still plenty of opportunity to add non standard stoage items to your vehicle....just do the paperwork beforehand

[flyonthewall]

I still don't get it. I can understand that adding a socket set to your tool roll is a reasonable thing to improve your function but

What do you think of developing a system that enables brigades to buy more substantial things for themselves more in a less restricted fashion? some examples may include BA sets, another bay on a station

Are you serious?

I realise that these are examples but BA sets? I mean .... really?
Do you guys have to buy BA sets?

[kj]

I still don't get it. I can understand that adding a socket set to your tool roll is a reasonable thing to improve your function but

What do you think of developing a system that enables brigades to buy more substantial things for themselves more in a less restricted fashion? some examples may include BA sets, another bay on a station

Are you serious?

I realise that these are examples but BA sets? I mean .... really?
Do you guys have to buy BA sets?

Not that I've been aware of, I belive he would be talking about upgrading.

[bittenyakka]

I still don't get it. I can understand that adding a socket set to your tool roll is a reasonable thing to improve your function but

What do you think of developing a system that enables brigades to buy more substantial things for themselves more in a less restricted fashion? some examples may include BA sets, another bay on a station

Are you serious?

I realise that these are examples but BA sets? I mean .... really?
Do you guys have to buy BA sets?

We don't have to supply any of this stuff but like almost every firs service in the world we would like to upgrade and get new equipment perhaps a bit more frequently. The issue is that many brigades have money but essentially aren't allowed to spend it.

So sticking with the CFS example if they pick a new BA set and put out a upgrade timeline but allow brigades to get it sooner if they pay we can use some of this coin that often only pays for end of year drinks.. This has issues of course but is an idea.

Mr teddy What paperwork? which form ? where do i get it?

[pumprescue]

So Mr Teddy your happy to reward lazy governments and lazy soft staff by fund raising, typical of the let's give up and do it ourselves mentality that holds us back, the service knows we will just end up doing it ourselves and those that actually need the equipment but can't raise the money for whatever reason miss out..... FFS!!

[Pipster]

Fundraising can be very difficult for small communities - low population, but many worthy causes (eg the local CFS, school, footy club, cricket club, tennis club, playgroup, Local Hall etc) - money doesn't go very far.

And how about the time factor - why should the people doing the job of protecting their community, also have to raise the funds to enable them to do that job?

For those brigades with the members keen to do the fundraising, and have a community with the capacity to provide the funds, good on you for raising money, to spend on additions to your brigade.   But don't make it something across the service that means you MUST fundraise just to keep the basic equipment in your brigade to a minimum standard.

Pip

[misterteddy]

So Mr Teddy your happy to reward lazy governments and lazy soft staff by fund raising, typical of the let's give up and do it ourselves mentality that holds us back, the service knows we will just end up doing it ourselves and those that actually need the equipment but can't raise the money for whatever reason miss out..... FFS!!

or.....some Brigades can get off their butts,do the risk assessments, provide the justification and research papers, identify, source and buy the gear, trial an introduction process, write the in service training package, and push the issue on up through the various b/s castles.....and bingo...the Service gets Recip Saws across Rescue Brigades.....its the efforts of those Brigades (and their money) that everyone benefits from. Or.....you can wait for the staff to do it, and the Government to offer to spend extra money on you.

I'm not disagreeing with your main theme.....just acknowledging the reality that we live in today....self help for some things is sometimes a necessary way of moving beyond a Bushfire Brigade, not saying its right - but for those that have done it, they should not be penalised. Bring on the day we don't have to fundraise to get access to modern state of the art equipment. Modernisation of the cave man tools is a must too as the current standard (and quality) is appalling.

[BundyBear]

I've heard it all on here now!

 Good on those brigades that can generate another source of income and have personnel that can hand over the extra time to such a commitment but unfortunately there are a number of pro’s and con’s.
Should a fire services brigade/station have to entertain a system where they have to consider setting up and maintaining a business or time intensive fund raising to prop up purchases of equipment?

If we dissected down these efforts like Bridgewater’s op shop or Burnside’s large fundraising effort or a lot of other brigades that fundraise in time vs. hourly rate in the simplest form I reckon it would be ordinary. I know the word “Volunteer” pops up now but if they are so keen would they be better focusing on training and equipment maintenance with that time?

Some of the actual purchases of brigades that can afford non standard stowage have been of concern in the past. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence where equipment has been bought with minimal due process in regards to training, initial equipment purchase cost, maintenance costs internally and externally. Some examples are quick cut saws, positive ventilation fans, gas detectors and heights equipment for working at heights or heights/confined space entry rescue and training in specific area’s CFS training cannot provide.

CFS headquarters needs to be listening to the rationale needs of its fire fighters to ensure the right equipment and training is accessible to certain brigades. It does not need to be a blanket approach as it would not meet all community safety needs in all areas of CFS response.
 
For too long the South Australian Country Fire Service has been a one trick rural pony, with a few glimmering lights in the training we receive in URAR, HAZMAT and CFB.

Areas that have dropped off the radar are:

•Fire appliances i.e. pumpers to manage the urban interface and large regional centres response requirements
•SFEC’s how many fire fighters allowed to have competencies in BA,RCR and HAZMAT etc in brigades
•Number of courses conducted per year
•Newer technology equipment that should or could be standard in certain brigades i.e. Thermal imaging cameras, gas detectors, RCR equipment (stabilisation/hydraulic tools)

[mattb]

So what sort of gear are brigades interested inbuying out of their own funds?

And what have you been told you cannot purchase ?

I know some of the rescue brigades would have bought plenty of operational gear to supplement what the service supplies.

My own brigade has purchased plenty of gear from fundraised money, and if we hadn't then we wouldn't have got it through the usual budgetry process.

I agree with the argument amount propping up a poorly funded service, but the reality is that we don't have a lot of choice. Unless the Chief gets the extra $10m he is asking for not a lot is going to change.

Some of the gear we have purchased throughout the years include;

Recipriocating saw / Battery drill kit (about 10 years before the service started supplying them)
PPV fans
Chainsaws
Haligan Tools (proper forcible entry one piece steel ones, not those cheap ones the CFS supply)
AED's
O2 kits
Lighting / Generators
Fridges for our appliances
AC Hot sticks
TFT / Akron branches
Plantation gear

That's just a few things that we use regularly at jobs (well maybe not the AED but you get the idea).

If we had to wait for the organisation to supply all that gear we would never get it. Yes we are fortunate that we can do a lot of fundraising and have the personnel to support it, and I do feel for the rural brigades that don't have that opportunity but still need the gear.

Unfortunately the reality is the CFS only has a limited budget, some of it goes to equipment, some goes to training, some goes to buildings, some goes to prevention and a big chunk of it goes to wages. If you want to put more into equipment you either have to take it away from somewhere else or get more from the Government, good luck either way.

It's also not just equipment that fundraised money is used for. Our brigade dinners, christmas days and family events are all paid for out of our fundraised money. Do you think the CFS is going to give us $1000 for our Christmas day - no way, but without some of these fun events to keep the volunteers and their families enjoying themselves no one is going to stick around too long. It's about doing what is right, and for us a bit of fundraising to pay for some of our larger events is worth it to keep everyone coming back at 3am for a fixed alarm.

The ultimate solution is a bigger budget, in the mean time my brigade will continue to fundraise and purchase equipment that we know is going to make our jobs safer and easier.

[pumprescue]

and the government continues to get a cheap fire service...we are so freakin dumb, I am my own worst enemy....grrrrr

[drmz]

Many have replied with wish lists for brigades, that I would be interested to see their selection process as to which brigades would receive this new equipment.  If this was to occur the money would soon evaporate & the trinkets would soon be obsolete.
A more long term solution would be to put all brigade funds into a trust account whereby 80% of the interest generated was used to fund the training of fire fighters. Then it would generate income for years to come & perpetually provide a revenue stream to benefit all brigades.

[Alan (Big Al)]

somehow i dont thin the interest generated from all fundraising would be great enough to make that big of a difference

[bittenyakka]

Matt - I guess i am in a lucky brigade so we haven;t been told that we can;t get anything the issue is that there is very little  enthusiasm for brigades to contribute to help or pay to try and speed up things like new trucks and building stations etc. This transfers down into equipment 

and from what i hear there is something in the order of $5 mil in brigade accounts across the state ....

For those of you who mention the Process for getting gear tc, What is this its eems to change depending on who you talk to...

[bajdas]

For personal curiosity, saw a page requesting volunteers to support a display to raise funds for the CFS Foundation on the paging website.

What is the CFS Foundation and what does the fund raised go to ?

I have not heard of the entity before....thanks.

[Pipster]

http://www.cfsfoundation.org.au/

Pip

[Alan (Big Al)]

fundraising and grants have done alot for our brigade,, we have spent upwards of 40k+ on the station and equipment over the last 4 or 5 years without it we would have bare basics but we have been able to uprgrade the whole station and buy eqipment essential to our operation that is above the standard stowge. Many other brigades have done the same. We work very hard for what we have gotten and jealousy has shown its head time to time from brigades who dont have much but if you dont do the hard yards you cant get what is needed sometimes.

[pumprescue]

It's a sad indictment of the way the CFS is run and why we will never be run to our full funded capacity.

[misterteddy]

It's a sad indictment of the way the CFS is run and why we will never be run to our full funded capacity.

actually, I think we run streets ahead of our funded capacity.....which is actually a positive reflection on the people.....and an indictment on the Gov

[pumprescue]

Isn't that exactly the problem Mr T? We run streets ahead of our funding so we get no more funding!

[Alan J]

It's a sad indictment of the way the CFS is run and why we will never be run to our full funded capacity.

Bollocks !!
It's a sad indictment of a government which chooses not to fund the Service to
level it should. I have no particular liking for the Libs, but at least under
their original proposal for the ESL, it would have collected the full amount of
the running costs. The current mob, aided by the Dems, halved the ESL take, to
around half of the actual cost, & won't admit they stuffed up.

Consequence is a Service which is understaffed, underpaid, undertrained & underequipped.

Volunteers have the choice of accepting higher risk posed by using just the
minimum tool set & training provided, or make themselves safer & work easier
by resorting to pre-ESL methods of funding better gear. Or just walk away, as
so many have already done.

[misterteddy]

Isn't that exactly the problem Mr T? We run streets ahead of our funding so we get no more funding!

i have no argument there, but whats the alternative? Go down the street with a handfull of primative tools that the local cockie wouldnt use; or, access $$ from the local community in a different way (that bypasses all the b/s and goes straight to the purpose), albeit with extra effort required. Again.....not saying it's right, just a reality if we want to be safe and effective. What we need to find is a CFS version of the Ambos Case Card Bans.....it works really well for them in getting changes in a hurry.

As Alan says, many have made the choice not to go down this path, instead populating golf courses and accessing lives without that annoying pager at 2am - all power to them. The real crime to my way of thinking is why the CFS and the CVSVA havent made a bigger deal of it, naming and shaming the Govt..... oh thats right, we dont adversely comment on the government these days do we, cos we promised to be nice, otherwise they'd stop our pocket money. Sadly, until we get a more militant approach and directly impact the Govenrment, either financially, or in terms of public opinion, I can't see anything changing