SACAD

[pumprescue]

Again, nothing wrong with the system, just the data put into it....and Al your right, CFS chose that...

[Bagyassfirey]

All fair and valid points, but when this brigade rolls it's 34p with RCR gear on it instead of the paged 24 doesn't it technically render the rescue gear offline. Therefore SACAD will respond the next closest RCR appliance if there is a job inside that RCR appliance beat?

[Alan (Big Al)]

All fair and valid points, but when this brigade rolls it's 34p with RCR gear on it instead of the paged 24 doesn't it technically render the rescue gear offline. Therefore SACAD will respond the next closest RCR appliance if there is a job inside that RCR appliance beat?

Yep bang on.

[misterteddy]

why would the means of carrying the equipment render the equipment offline? So long as it gets all the equipment to the job safely, can complete the task appropriately and perform to the same standard who gives a rats toss what or which of the designed for the task CFS vehicles is used (remembering there are several Brigades that use a 34P as their primary RCR vehicle)

This is what happens when we concentrate on names, numbers, callsigns, units, resources blah blah blah instead of "the service we provide". The only question that needs to be asked is "Is it an appropriate vehicle to be used for this response" and unless their 34P is unique in the fleet, it is. If their 24 was down for a repair or maintenance and because of that stupid SACAD responds another Brigade that is 10s of kms away, then again.....the system is broke. It's a digital solution (1 or 0, black or white) to an analogue problem.

Sounds like it's more a case of trying to point score against a neighboring Brigade......THIS is one of the bigger issues in the CFS today IMNSHO

Not sure I've heard anything sillier on here for a while

[Bagyassfirey]

Not at all just happened to be in the town when they turned out and was curious as to where they were off to! I think you missed the point mr Teddy!! My point being they were turning out to a grass fire and took their "19" appliance which in SACAD than took their RCR gear offline! When SACAD was explained to us we were told to read ur pager carefully and respond the appliance listed....just because you don't agree doesn't make it stupid!!

[FlameTrees]

why would the means of carrying the equipment render the equipment offline? So long as it gets all the equipment to the job safely, can complete the task appropriately and perform to the same standard who gives a rats toss what or which of the designed for the task CFS vehicles is used (remembering there are several Brigades that use a 34P as their primary RCR vehicle)

This is what happens when we concentrate on names, numbers, callsigns, units, resources blah blah blah instead of "the service we provide". The only question that needs to be asked is "Is it an appropriate vehicle to be used for this response" and unless their 34P is unique in the fleet, it is. If their 24 was down for a repair or maintenance and because of that stupid SACAD responds another Brigade that is 10s of kms away, then again.....the system is broke. It's a digital solution (1 or 0, black or white) to an analogue problem.

Sounds like it's more a case of trying to point score against a neighboring Brigade......THIS is one of the bigger issues in the CFS today IMNSHO

Not sure I've heard anything sillier on here for a while

spoken like someone who has never had to try and manage resources frm an IMT perspective. Also the whole reason SACAD has so many issues...too many brigades / groups ignoring the agreed rules and still just doing their own thing. Until that stops we will never lose the Dad's Army image.

[pumprescue]

Couldn't agree more flame trees

[Pipster]

We were advised that QRV's & 14's would not be counted as resources under SACAD unless the GOMP had been submitted, and incorporated into the SACAD data.

I was advised that had occurred for my Group...but alas, the wrong appliance is responded under SACAD to particular incidents - in the case of my area, it is often more appropriate for a QRV or 14 to be responded in the first instance, to a reported rural fire (as per the agreed GOMP with our Group)

So while brigades need to do the right thing, and follow procedures, the data has not been correctly updated in SACAD - meaning SACAD gives you one version of events, which is completely opposite to what the Group has agreed (and most often what is the sensible, and most appropriate thing to do in the circumstances!)

Pip

[misterteddy]

spoken like someone who has never had to try and manage resources frm an IMT perspective.

The day IMT management becomes the standard by which we manage ourselves is the day we can close the sheds....

[misterteddy]

I think you missed the point mr Teddy!! My point being they were turning out to a grass fire and took their "19" appliance which in SACAD than took their RCR gear offline!

yes I did miss your point, I concede that....because u didnt make it (no mention of the 34P to a grassfire in the original)....yes, taking your RCR appliance and equipment to a grassfire when u have a 24 in the shed would, on the surface of it, appear silly.

I stand by the remainder of my points

[misterteddy]

Until that stops we will never lose the Dad's Army image.

one of the things that makes me cringe at campaign fires is having interstate teams experience our IMTs.....Dad's Army has nothing on them....anachronistic and out of touch - just an embarrassment. Very few of them are worth the cost of the toner on the mountains of paperwork they produce. One of the tasks for our better career staff should be all IMT functions after t+2 hrs (note that would require a change in recruitment). If IMT is as critical as people seem to think they are (and my jury is out on that), then lets get one good one and train them properly, and manage them appropriately.

[pumprescue]

There seems to be a breakdown between brigades and Adelaide Fire....gee that wouldn't be the CFS paid staff....noooo couldn't be!?

[Alan (Big Al)]

Why is it before SACAD came online somne groups were given an operational update evening by an RO which included all GP's DGO's Capt's Lt's and Snr's yet other groups were not given this... One would think that if your are going to do this you do it properly and give your little presentation to all groups not just heres the book read it

[flyonthewall]

How about just following the system put in place and then lodging the grieviances through the appropriate channels to rectify or adjust the necessary requirements and until then, just do what is asked.

[pumprescue]

Because as per usual even our regional staff are making up rules as they go, if they can't get it right then how are we supposed to!

[mattb]

We were told that you can now name the appliances you wish to be responded again, instead of making everything a second alarm when you only want one extra appliance.

Has this info made it's way to the AF operators PR ?

[Alan (Big Al)]

See I think u shouldn't be able to name the appliances u want it should just be  the number of appliances u require otherwise it will just breed old habits of some groups responding only their own appliances instead of closer ones.

[Zippy]

Totally agree with Big Al. Has there ever been the thought of trialing the CFA "Make" system???

[flyonthewall]

Posted on: Today at 12:41:19 PMPosted by: mattb  

We were told that you can now name the appliances you wish to be responded again, instead of making everything a second alarm when you only want one extra appliance.

Has this info made it's way to the AF operators PR ?

....Why do the AF operators need to know this for? If you need a second truck , why can't you just ask for one? The only reason you would need to ask for a particular truck would be for specialist purposes, wouldn't it? Does it really matter who turns up otherwise?

...... Me thinks that each brigade has been doing it's own thing for years and now everyone is being put on the same page, it's a bit difficult to change so there's some pants poo'ing going on!

Me also thinks some of you guys are making it a bit more difficult than it really is.  

[misterteddy]

because fly...the way it has been working to get an extra appliance to help with traffic control at a scene, the system makes it a Second Alarm and that usually gives you 2 appliances, not always what you want or need.

It might be that the road that the closest response will be coming down is blocked for 2 or 3 Kms, and you actually want the traffic control on the other side of the incident anyway, so the Brigade 2nd or 3rd closest is BEST situated to respond to what you need for the Incident.

Closest, like biggest, is not always best

[pumprescue]

Call the police then 

[misterteddy]

Call the police then 

hahahaha....you are one funny farker....lol 

[flyonthewall]

Posted on: Today at 06:49:32 AMPosted by: misterteddy  

because fly...the way it has been working to get an extra appliance to help with traffic control at a scene, the system makes it a Second Alarm and that usually gives you 2 appliances, not always what you want or need.

It might be that the road that the closest response will be coming down is blocked for 2 or 3 Kms, and you actually want the traffic control on the other side of the incident anyway, so the Brigade 2nd or 3rd closest is BEST situated to respond to what you need for the Incident.

Closest, like biggest, is not always best

"Adelaide fire we require another appliance to respond for traffic control at XXXX. Can you respond XXXX and get them to talk to me on XXXXX"

Comms should be doing what you ask for. The system should not be making decisions if you have otherwise asked.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Alex]

If a single appliance is required for a specific role this can be done.

It's the idiots coming up on air for grass, house etc fires and listing a whole bunch of appliances that is being refused. This is where alarm levels are to be used.

Matt, simple answer is no.

If brigades ESZs and station preference lists are wrong then change them, don't try to change the way the system is run.

[misterteddy]

yeah....so don't you blokes on the run doing the job try and change the admin system will you....coz thats just not on

Dog this is Tail.....wag, out