Author Topic: Heavy Pumper (Read 30735 times)

SA Firey · « **on:** April 07, 2011, 09:08:29 AM »

The new IVECO heavy pumper in New Zealand, coming to a brigade near you.....fact or fiction

JJD · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2011, 09:58:04 AM »

Something like this?

(Thanks fireenginephotos!!!!)

6739264 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2011, 07:49:37 PM »

Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?

WHO KNOWS?!?!

SA Firey · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2011, 10:02:14 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on April 07, 2011, 07:49:37 PM

Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?

WHO KNOWS?!?!

Yes is the word.

pumprescue · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:58:34 AM »

A : Its not a heavy pumper - its a medium - single stage pump 750 GPM pump (assuming they stuck with the specs from NZ, which CFS never change see the NSWFB Type 2)

B : That picture is the NZFS type 1 - which is a light pumper 500 GPM pump.

So basically its what we were already buying, but on an Iveco cab/chassis

IN NO WAY IS IT A HEAVY PUMPER (which is sad) If you speak to the NZFS these don't go to stations that need to boost, and if they do need to boost they will get a heavy pumper and these are usually used as Rescue pumps, as the stowage layout is ideal for a rescue pump.

6739264 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2011, 09:35:39 AM »

Quote from: SA Firey on April 07, 2011, 10:02:14 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on April 07, 2011, 07:49:37 PM
Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?

WHO KNOWS?!?!

Yes is the word.

Sounds like it'll come down to a delivery date race...

jason · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2011, 09:48:23 AM »

So sounds like CFS may have brought 2 new pumpers. So who will be the lucky brigade? Who can justify one??

pumprescue · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2011, 10:38:08 AM »

Hmmmm don't know about 2, but the NZ is sounding on the cars....as for who gets it, think who has the biggest jallopy pumper right now.....

pumprescue · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2011, 03:25:43 PM »

Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?

6739264 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2011, 04:17:24 PM »

Quote from: jason on April 08, 2011, 09:48:23 AM

So sounds like CFS may have brought 2 new pumpers. So who will be the lucky brigade? Who can justify one??

Notice I said "Aus" not "South Aus"

Quote from: pumprescue on April 08, 2011, 10:38:08 AM

Hmmmm don't know about 2, but the NZ is sounding on the cars....as for who gets it, think who has the biggest jallopy pumper right now.....

Hmmm..... Lets think about that... hmmmm...

Quote from: pumprescue on April 08, 2011, 03:25:43 PM

Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?

God, you'd hope so. Or maybe they should piggy back a handful of Class 3's?

safireservice · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2011, 10:48:51 AM »

So the CFS gets another 1 off pumper, nothing new there.

safireservice · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2011, 10:50:43 AM »

Quote from: pumprescue on April 08, 2011, 03:25:43 PM

Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?

What for probably 2? I think they should really bite the bullet and get at least 10 of these to fill some gaps.

smiff77 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2011, 02:05:16 PM »

So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?

Pipster · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2011, 03:53:20 PM »

As in heavy pumps?

Two - Morphett Vale & Burnside - based on the premise of a heavy pumper being capable of pumping 1000 gpm (or around or 3785 lpm)

Pip

6739264 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2011, 05:02:09 PM »

Quote from: smiff77 on April 10, 2011, 02:05:16 PM

So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?

SACFS don't have a designation for a Heavy Pumper.

Anything "Type 2" Pumper and higher meets the requirements for an "Urban Pumper", according to SACFS. As Pip has said, its generally understood that a "Heavy" pumper can spit out 1000gpm. If you look around the country at other services "Ultra Large" and "Super Pumpers" they dwarf the capacity of anything the CFS calls a pumper. (Not that CFS need anything like that, its more for interests sake)

Does a 34P Tanker with Urban Stowage meet the CFS definition of an "Urban Pumper"?

Light Pumper - 1000L/m @ 700kpa
Medium Pumper - 2000L/m @ 700kpa
Urban Pumper - 3000L/m @ 700kpa
24P Tanker - 2000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
34P Tanker - 3000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
(All shamelessly ripped from the Oct 2010 SOP's Glossary, I really hope there is a better definition out there?)

I do love the manner in which CFS rate their pumps to the recommended operating pressure of the branch, rather than to a figure closer to 'normal' pump operating pressures, say 1000kpa?

safireservice · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2011, 05:13:58 PM »

So any more to the rumour mill?

smiff77 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2011, 06:07:56 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on April 10, 2011, 05:02:09 PM

Quote from: smiff77 on April 10, 2011, 02:05:16 PM
So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?

SACFS don't have a designation for a Heavy Pumper.

Anything "Type 2" Pumper and higher meets the requirements for an "Urban Pumper", according to SACFS. As Pip has said, its generally understood that a "Heavy" pumper can spit out 1000gpm. If you look around the country at other services "Ultra Large" and "Super Pumpers" they dwarf the capacity of anything the CFS calls a pumper. (Not that CFS need anything like that, its more for interests sake)

Does a 34P Tanker with Urban Stowage meet the CFS definition of an "Urban Pumper"?

Light Pumper - 1000L/m @ 700kpa
Medium Pumper - 2000L/m @ 700kpa
Urban Pumper - 3000L/m @ 700kpa
24P Tanker - 2000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
34P Tanker - 3000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
(All shamelessly ripped from the Oct 2010 SOP's Glossary, I really hope there is a better definition out there?)

I do love the manner in which CFS rate their pumps to the recommended operating pressure of the branch, rather than to a figure closer to 'normal' pump operating pressures, say 1000kpa?

How about,how many pumpers with over 3000lpm capacity?. I see a number of Isuzus similar to CFA and FRNSW.

6739264 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2011, 01:23:51 AM »

Quote from: smiff77 on April 18, 2011, 06:07:56 PM

How about,how many pumpers with over 3000lpm capacity?. I see a number of Isuzu's similar to CFA and FRNSW.

The Isuzu's are the FRNSW Type 2 Build. There are 6 of them off the top of my head, at Murray Bridge, Millicent, Happy Valley, Mount Barker, Hahndorf and Eden Hills. They have the Rosenbauer NH30 pump, rated to 3000lpm/ 1000kpa.

As for pumpers "Over 3000lpm/1000kpa" you'd be looking at million dollar abomination that is The Dennis at Morphett Vale, the slightly bent, but still "new" Volvo at Burnside and the other million dollar lemon Pumper at Stirling. All three of these were prototype builds/buys and the only one that operated as a fire truck should have from day one was Burnside's Volvo. The Dennis and the Isuzu at Stirling have cost hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to continually patch. They finally solved both problems with the Dennis looking to be scraped, and Stirling's pumper getting a MAJOR refit, pump and all last year.

"Heavy" Pumpers and the SACFS have a rather rocky relationship...

Darius · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2011, 10:10:23 AM »

where does Bridgewater's pumper fit into your assessement of things?

pumprescue · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:58:39 PM »

Bridgewater pumper would be classed as a light pumper going off the specs, its the same as a 24P/34P, 500GPM pump, only thing different is the 2in 2out. Are their any other inlets or outlets ?

The NSW style Type 2's are medium pumps as has been stated.

The 3 heavy pumpers have also been listed, when the Dennis goes and if the stated replacement eventuates then the CFS will only have 2 Heavy pumps, both of which were brigade designed. The Stirling version was interfered with by HQ and we all know how that ended up, after nearly 10 years its finally good to go, and Burnside to their credit stuck to their guns and got what they wanted and surprise surprise it works !

6739264 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:05:52 AM »

Quote from: Darius on April 19, 2011, 10:10:23 AM

where does Bridgewater's pumper fit into your assessement of things?

Its a 24P, with a PTO pump. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a PTO driven pump does not an Urban Pumper make.

You'll notice that Bridgewater "Pumper" was part of a run of five appliances built. These are:

Bridgewater Pumper
Nuriootpa 24P
Waikerie URP
Bordertown URP
Roxby Downs URP

Pick a callsign and appliance designation, I've got a hat full!

It's disappointing to see that CFS will not enforce correct appliance classification and callsign usage.

Quote from: pumprescue on April 19, 2011, 05:58:39 PM

Bridgewater pumper would be classed as a light pumper going off the specs, its the same as a 24P/34P, 500GPM pump, only thing different is the 2in 2out.

Don't forget a 24P and 34P differ, as one is rated to pump 2000lpm the other 3000lpm. The 500GPM pump would sit Bridgewater "Pumper" happily in the 24P class of appliance.

pumprescue · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2011, 01:05:03 AM »

34P is 3000LPM....huh? Yeah, it has 3000 litres in its tank and you could probable empty it in a minute if you tried hard enough....Unless things have changed we can't get anything more out of our 34P than we could out of our 24P. I hope your toungue was in your cheek.

6739264 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2011, 10:19:15 AM »

Quote from: pumprescue on April 20, 2011, 01:05:03 AM

34P is 3000LPM....huh? Yeah, it has 3000 litres in its tank and you could probable empty it in a minute if you tried hard enough....Unless things have changed we can't get anything more out of our 34P than we could out of our 24P. I hope your toungue was in your cheek.

Not at all, for once.

SACFS COSO + SOP's (October 2010) Glossary states:

Quote

24P Tanker: An tanker [sic] with 2000 litre water carrying capacity and 4-wheel drive. Pump capability 2000 litres per minute and can carry a specialist resource eg RCR or Hazmat

34P Tanker: An tanker [sic] with 3000 litre water carrying capacity and 4-wheel drive. Pump capability 3000 litres per minute and can carry a specialist resource eg RCR or Hazmat

You'll note that it gives no output pressure for the lpm rating, so it could well be 3000lpm @ 1kpa.

If anyone has a better and more clearly defined classification for SACFS trucks, please feel free to correct me. (and the SOP's)

Alex · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:56:19 AM »

Quote from: 6739264 on April 20, 2011, 12:05:52 AM

Its a 24P, with a PTO pump. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a PTO driven pump does not an Urban Pumper make.

You'll notice that Bridgewater "Pumper" was part of a run of five appliances built. These are:

Bridgewater Pumper
Nuriootpa 24P
Waikerie URP
Bordertown URP
Roxby Downs URP

Pick a callsign and appliance designation, I've got a hat full!

It's disappointing to see that CFS will not enforce correct appliance classification and callsign usage.

Also Coromandel Valley 24P. Similar build, PTO driven 500gpm pump and 3in 3out.

pumprescue · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:14:00 PM »

Oh dear god it does say that......just when I couldn't lose any more faith in this service something else comes along to drop it even lower....the paid boffins don't understand they trucks they issue us....fishing rod where are you!!