When to push the button?

[Benji]

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08-12-10 09:55:14 MFS: FROM RESIDENT STOP CALL FOR INCIDENT AT 1075 GREENHILL ROAD, SUMMERTOWN. MARGARET ARCHER. UNSURE OF DIN. CALLED AT 11PM LAST NIGHT. FLOODING OF BACK ROOM - SES Adelaide Hills Response

this must have been one that slipped through ..... I guess they should have rung in triplicate hard copy
[/quote]

For what it is worth the address received by the unit was incorrect and the occupent of the house we did attend was new to area and didnt know names of neighbours so we couldnt locate that way...

[pumprescue]

I can see why MFS are being cautious about taking on the role without doing proper research and budgeting, they would be insane to take it on any other way.

It obvious that relying on volunteers to man what should be a manned CRD centre is not fair.

Has the SES thought of paid manning it themselves ?

[misterteddy]

so the paper based transcribing caused an error??...who would have thought.

did u try the white pages?......she's in there with her correct address

[bajdas]

I can see why MFS are being cautious about taking on the role without doing proper research and budgeting, they would be insane to take it on any other way.

It obvious that relying on volunteers to man what should be a manned CRD centre is not fair.

Has the SES thought of paid manning it themselves ?

Previous Minister stated a few years ago that MFS is the only paid service in the SAFECOM sector (except for existing CFS, SES & SAFECOM paid staff)...and you cannot be part of Adelaide Fire unless you are a fully qualified MFS firefighter.

**NOTE: Please let me know if the above is incorrect, but that is what I have been advised ***

No provision for Retained or volunteers.

With current mass SA Government redundancies happening, I personally doubt they will employ more.

[bajdas]

...It obvious that relying on volunteers to man what should be a manned CRD centre is not fair...

You must like INSULTING volunteers..... on what basis should the CRD be paid staff only ?   

It is the design of the CRD system that is the issue, not who staffs the system.

[pumprescue]

I am not having a go, sorry but i still think it's not fair, if it was all perfect then the changes you spoke about wouldn't be happening.

[rescue5271]

CRD will only work if the information is correct....One CRD will not work and I know I talk about Victoria alot but they learnt first hand that they need more than one CRD and that these are located away from Fire stations. Just this week the CRD crashed in Victoria along with radio problems...While I am talking about Victoria as of 1230hrs today VICFIRE had taken and paged 1950 jobs  to SES so do you think one CRD here in SA would be able to deal with that???


So getting back on topic does anyone really know when to push the button??

Does it really matter if your paid or volunteer as long as the job gets done??

Remember information flow needs to start from the call taker I know we had a job where the address and number was wrong,these things happen.

[bajdas]

Sorry to take this partially off-topic again and I know it is a consistent problem with all agencies, BUT...

...part of the issue historically is funding..no money existed to fund a good CRD process or system. I think it is still an issue with any organisation not wanting to incur a large ongoing cost every year...

SA SES receives the lowest funding when compared to CFS and MFS. Yet we have to provide a great service during the multi-incident events and day-to-day events.

The amount of money required for good computer systems will easily pay for new trucks, equipment, buildings, etc for the front-line responders.

Personally, I still would want the funding to go to the frontline responders rather than back office.

I genuinely pity the paid staff that are trying to balance the cost-benefit in the longterm of a new CRD system.

[chook]

Quite right Andrew - it is easy to look eastwards/ westwards & say " but they do it this way & have that" etc etc. But you have hit the nail on the head - money! We have over 225 paid staff(with the numbers climbing) including a major IT section. And when the "super department" was launched, it was canned in 6 months as unworkable. The regions are starting to become well staffed as well - so when major events occur work can planned, and correctly resourced prior to the event without tying up vollies. If you were to look at Wagga for example - not only were the emergency services working (under direction of SES) but also council & recruits from the ADF. For too long SA has gone done the path of cost cutting without proper regard to the long term implications of that. By the way if people are interested in changing careers, have a look on Seek.com, there are some very interesting positions available

[bajdas]

So getting back on topic does anyone really know when to push the button??

Does it really matter if your paid or volunteer as long as the job gets done??

when to push the button ? = When the 'agreed level of emergency response for that incident type' is not met consistently or AIIMS level 3 incident.

Because I am a base volunteer, I am unsure what the response timing is for storm damage. A tree in the yard is no response, tree on roof is higher and tree on road is higher again.

Paid or volunteer CRD staff = does not matter as long as they are trained, supported and funded.

Personally, if they want to pay staff or use volunteers or use a SAAS volunteer/Retained staff model to process 'business as usual' CRD levels, their choice. Paid staff are have better knowedge on the issues than I ever will.

On this issue, it is how staff manage the 'surge' CRD events. Be it multi-fires, storms, flood, explosion, etc.

I know of at least two government Standby multi-seat call centres in Adelaide, as well as technology to direct calls & process data. It is how you activate, fund & staff those centres is a challenge.

I work in a Western suburbs building with approx 2500 staff who operate client company call centres for the public. The staff in the building then process the data from those calls.

It can be very expensive & thus you work with the tools given to you to achieve the best result. Never perfect because you never have the best tools. The multi-billion $$ company I work for cannot fund the best tools (but damn good tools anyway), so how does emergency services do it ?

Victoria's large CRD centre could not cope with the surge, ETSA struggles.....I think it helps to share resources & equipment. We just need to get better at sharing

[jaff]

So when to push the button? Does SES have a "Trigger Point" for complimentary service involvement, if so is that pre determined, ie predicted weather event continuation, with multiple job stacking already occurring! Or is it left to individuals to make this assessment?

Imagine if the "Trigger Point" was something really really simple....like.... uuumm ...I don't know.....say something like closest most appropriate!

[bajdas]

Imagine if the "Trigger Point" was something really really simple....like.... uuumm ...I don't know.....say something like closest most appropriate!

Ummm already planned, called SACAD.....but it is not simple when you add 'appropriate'.

and this will start the normal saga of postings....I am not trained to do RCR or have access to the equipment...yet I am closer than some....do I respond...NO

[Alex]

...It obvious that relying on volunteers to man what should be a manned CRD centre is not fair...

You must like INSULTING volunteers..... on what basis should the CRD be paid staff only ?    

It is the design of the CRD system that is the issue, not who staffs the system.

I dont think its a case of pumprescue enjoying insulting vollunteers.

But i know from personal experience that the use of vollunteers does not work in this role 100% of the time unfortunately. The SES SCC put in every effort to man as best they can, and there guys do a great job at that, but on occasion they have not been able to open due to lack of available crew, they have taken excessive time to open or they have closed in the middle of an event and not been able to re-open as they need to rest crews.

So who is 'relying on vollunteers' not fair on? The vollunteers, Adelaide Fire staff who have to chock the system up or the public?

[Zippy]

Better yet, join forces, merge the two services, have special division setup of paid staff who manage the Flood/Search/Rescue side of things..etc, etc, etc.

Looking at the collective pool of volunteers, it'd be far easier if every volunteer from both services can assist, promptly.

Job stacking can happen much less than it happens now, when an effective IMT is in place, Sectorising whole sections of area to be under divisional commanders...again etc etc etc.  

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

[bajdas]

AGREED Alex & Zippy....it can be done better

[misterteddy]

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

oh dear God no...please don't let us accept that level of management....

[Zippy]

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

oh dear God no...please don't let us accept that level of management....

HA i know what your suggesting....Yes Bushfires too have failed management

[jaff]

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

oh dear God no...please don't let us accept that level of management....

HA i know what your suggesting....Yes Bushfires too have failed management

And recently!

[Mic10110]

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

oh dear God no...please don't let us accept that level of management....

HA i know what your suggesting....Yes Bushfires too have failed management

And recently!

I stand to be corrected, but I didn't see SES at Stockport until Wednesday morning. Light strike team arrived as the Gilbert river broke, but before that it was Wakefield Plains CFS who were doing the work with citizens. Same thing occurred a couple of months ago - no SES to be seen until after the event

[SA Firey]

This round of flooding, could have easily been handled as good as a bush fire.

oh dear God no...please don't let us accept that level of management....

HA i know what your suggesting....Yes Bushfires too have failed management

And recently!

I stand to be corrected, but I didn't see SES at Stockport until Wednesday morning. Light strike team arrived as the Gilbert river broke, but before that it was Wakefield Plains CFS who were doing the work with citizens. Same thing occurred a couple of months ago - no SES to be seen until after the event

SES Special Operations Team were in Stockport on Tuesday night, assisting with the rescue of a reported disabled person in a wheelchair stuck in a flooded property.

I have to say that I have never seen the water in the Main street at waist level before and the Gilbert was running very high, as the Light Group Car lost the headlights underwater earlier.

Light River was roaring under the Gawler to Two Wells Rd with a foot to spare under the bridge.

[bajdas]

I believe that other than Kapunda SES (who were asking for outside assistance on the night) and Edinburgh SES, that area and the Barossa is covered by CFS.

Taskings were handed to CFS and SAPOL via the liason officers on the night.

Extra SES crews & equipment (eg flat bed truck with sandbags) were sent to Mannum earlier in the evening. With the fatigue rules, it limits what you can do while also covering Adelaide as best you can.

I saw Sturt SES being requested for its trailer flood pump in the days past the storm.

Just a case of CFS handling Two Wells and Barossa regions with its own resources.

Hmmmm, so it happens with CFS IMT as well as SES.....surprise, surprise  

*** PERSONAL OPINION ONLY ***