SAMFS Response Paging

[Wagon 1]

Yeah, might be pretty well done for the urban CFS brigades, but you ask the South East brigades that happened to get paged by SAMFS and its closer 8-10% correct and the rest wrong, but I understand they are not supposed to be on direct paging as there is not info to page them with and BOMS doesn't allow for an easy plain language pager message, as we all know. At least SOC can write a plain language message, even if it says Behing John Schmidt farm on the Two Wells to Gawler Road. But hey, merge the 2 I say, and use dedicated comms staff that are not affiliated to any service, just SAFECOM.

[Firefrog]

I would prefer not to see a civillian staffed centralised CAD service. From my understanding they have not worked very well in other states/countries. Happy to be proven wrong

This is my opinion only - why no let SAMFS take calls and dispatch for SAMFS and Let SACFS do likewise for SACFS. As we know 000 can be routed to anywhere a service requests, for example urban fringe residents living within SACFS boundaries report a fire and they talk to a Career call taker at SOC, who then dispatches the correct response.

In my mind this would help stop two SAMFS and one or Two SACFS trucks going to every bin fire in SACFS areas.

Of course there will be the Mobile phone anomaly.

Centralisation is possibly good for cost savings etc. but bad from an emergency perspective. We need multiple CRD centers for redundancy if the worst happens.

[TillerMan]

Ah yes but from what i have heard the minister doesn't want 2 data bases in the state so therefore cfs may not have the capability's to do all areas.

Maybe Alex can shed some light on this.

[Wagon 1]

The problem is the state government doesn't want to pay for a 4th CAD, they only want 3, so good luck getting a 4th, the CFS misses out again as per usual!! I think the original plan was to have both services in WAkefield street but still operate as a seperate identity, but then the talk was interegrate them so everyone rotates through the booths. Then I was told there was union issues, pay rates, etc etc, SAMFS didn't want all the work CFS does, they just want to take calls and do radio, etc etc. (PS, how do I know this, some vollys went on a tour to Victoria and this was some of the talk that came out of it, I know one of them, and no, I won't say who because I know what happens )

I am sooooo glad I don't work for the CFS or MFS, sounds like all they do is go round in circles, hard enough being a volly!!

[oz fire]

Do we need 3 CAD liocenses?

Maybe we could amalgamate the CFS, SAAS and MFS CRD and comms facilities, using staff from each service - would also save time lag between call transfer, ensure accurate info and allow questioning.

To date this option has not been considered seriously. Sure SAAS were in Wakefield street, however they were behind a glass wall and might as well have been in Victoria - so my suggestion would be put the three services togehter, in a greenfields site (which would allow one of the current sites to be a contingency site)to undertake CRD for 4 services for all of SA - problems solved and what a great way to start the services working together.

[Wagon 1]

Good luck

[backburn]

The only major problem we have is when we request samfs to an incident they have not received there page. They argue with us that its our area when we are in there town ship.

They seem to have a problem with the old boundaries unless its in the main street they do not get called out. I have been on the phone when we get the call from them and they argue with us so we go to the incident and keep on calling them to attend.

[Wagon 1]

Wow, thats a first, knocking back a response.

[24P]

only when it suits them though 

[backburn]

Its been 3 m v a this financial year one car went into a shed. So if they argue on the phone I will always respond cfs as soc have agreed to it as well. Get help there first then have discussions later if needed. Well thats what i say anyway.   

[Roger]

All of the services signed off on the RCR Directory so that, (outside Metro Adelaide) Fire, Rescue, SAPol & SAAS will all attend MVAs whether persons trapped or not.. i.e. MFS and/or CFS should now be dispatching Fire AND Rescue for ALL MVA's.
Some CFS Groups are not happy that this was signed off without consultation, and want to reserve the right to decide the response in their gazetted area of responsibility... should rescue go if there is absolutely no need? Who should be able to make this decision? Who is legally responsible for these response plans (CFS Heirarchy or Group Officers)?
(see also the topic on RCR Directory)

[Wagon 1]

TO many screw ups by the "she'll be right" group of people have resulted in this happening. I have heard some terrible stories, I say, you can always turn them back, a lot easier than going, "oh sh*t better call rescue"

[corocfs]

i know for a fact that SOC will respond fire cover and a rescue brigade (wether this adds up to one or two brigade depends on locality obviously) to any and all MVAs, wether there are reported entrapments or not.

[strikeathird]

Good to know.  Would hate to think that I could be trapped in a car some where, and because of a G.O or I/C's complaicency (spelling)  that i would be stuck in their for half hour longer than i had to because they thought it would all be fine without a Rescue brigade !

[Wagon 1]

Exactly right strikeathird, to many stuff ups, so take the choice away and you have less screw ups.

[Roger]

All good, but the question remains the same...who is legally responsible for the response plans?

[oz fire]

Under the CF Act Regulations 2004, Part2, 4 (1) states the CFS Board is responsible to prepare and maintain an overall plan for fire fighting and dealing with other emergencies. Part 4, 2 (3) states each CFS organisation must prepare a plan (hence Group and Brigade).

Subsequent to this then the responsibility for Response plans and operations falls to a GO and then ultimately a Captain, who is responsible for all operations within their brigade area.

[Wagon 1]

If its the green book, then all agencies are responsible for the end result as they all signed off on all responses. As for the normal fire brigade response, it falls to the chief I would think, the buck stops there in the end.

[strikeathird]

So, quite simply, if you are tasked to an MVA, and it is 'Unknown' if persons are trapped or not, play it safe and ensure a Rescue brigade is on its way.  You can always say the words " STOP FOR CALL ", however, the words to a family informing them of a deceased loved one, are not so easy !

[24P]

Not sure if this is the right thread but can anyone tell me when SOC recieve a call for a CFS brigade why do they pass it off to MFS to do the dispatch instead of responding the appropriate brigade themselves? Im sure there is a logical answer but i thought if they got the call they would automatically respond the brigade?
ps wasnt in soc busy that day either.

[nomex_nugget]

Nothing logical about it.

Some groups don't trust the SOC guys to do the response paging and have decided that all response messages must come from MFS.

Even when someone calls CFS direct they have to pass it on to MFS to do the paging, definately a case of double handling and increasing response times.

[24P]

Dont know why they wouldnt trust them, most of the time you get more accurate info from a SOC page than a generic page from MFS. Could mean valuable time wasted relaying the details.

[medevac]

all comes down to MFS wannabe groups sometimes i think..

there are a fair few fringe brigades that get both... it depends on what the peferance is of the primary brigade as to where the page comes from... it is absoloutely rediculous

[24P]

Not fussy where the page comes from but i feel if SOC get the initial call then they should do the responding not pass it off.

[medevac]

its a time waster put in place by certain people/groups/brigades...

why would you trust MFS comms more than CFS Comms... when CFS comms is full of people that do that as there full time job, where as MFS comms quite regularly has FFs doing the work, with a few fulltijmers....