Driving requirements

[fly]

Hey guys,

Just asking what you have in place at brigade/unit level for driving vehicles?
What your thoughts on defensive driving courses being offered to new drivers in your brigade/unit?

If you have P plate drivers P1 or P2 what is your restriction on them?

Whats your policy on drug and alcohol use, of course its always zero tolerance but would like to hear stratigies that have been used?

 

[Andrew K]

For our unit people with p1 or p2 licenses can't drive unit vehicles, other drivers have to be approved by the unit manager after you go for a drive with him. One of our trucks even though it is technically a car license can only be driven by someone with a truck license

Unfortunatly we don't get extra driver training through the ses although there is supposedly a course in the works, some of us have done defensive driving outside of the ses. Really all drivers that drive p1 or p2 jobs should have extra driver training , but they don't seem to think we need it so its up to units to do what they can.

As for drugs and alcohol we work on a policy that if you've had a drink or taken something don't turn up if you do and its discovered if there is an accident for example it would like be dismissable

[fly]

For our unit people with p1 or p2 licenses can't drive unit vehicles, other drivers have to be approved by the unit manager after you go for a drive with him. One of our trucks even though it is technically a car license can only be driven by someone with a truck license

Unfortunately we don't get extra driver training through the ses although there is supposedly a course in the works, some of us have done defensive driving outside of the ses. Really all drivers that drive p1 or p2 jobs should have extra driver training , but they don't seem to think we need it so its up to units to do what they can.

As for drugs and alcohol we work on a policy that if you've had a drink or taken something don't turn up if you do and its discovered if there is an accident for example it would like be dismissable

Yeah thnx for that. We go by the method of that the boss must take the person for driver training. Then is allowed to drive with a senior until they are approved to drive by themselves.

With the drugs and alcohol what you said is very sensible and what most people would follow. But what can you do for those that rebel from the rules?
Anyone know what the go is with drugs and alcohol policy wise from safecom? And if so what level drug and alcohol testing can be requested?

There is a fine line and when there is a suspicion how can it be delt with "easily" and by the books so no one gets sued. LOL

 

[SA Firey]

For our unit people with p1 or p2 licenses can't drive unit vehicles, other drivers have to be approved by the unit manager after you go for a drive with him. One of our trucks even though it is technically a car license can only be driven by someone with a truck license

Unfortunately we don't get extra driver training through the ses although there is supposedly a course in the works, some of us have done defensive driving outside of the ses. Really all drivers that drive p1 or p2 jobs should have extra driver training , but they don't seem to think we need it so its up to units to do what they can.

As for drugs and alcohol we work on a policy that if you've had a drink or taken something don't turn up if you do and its discovered if there is an accident for example it would like be dismissable

Yeah thnx for that. We go by the method of that the boss must take the person for driver training. Then is allowed to drive with a senior until they are approved to drive by themselves.

With the drugs and alcohol what you said is very sensible and what most people would follow. But what can you do for those that rebel from the rules?
Anyone know what the go is with drugs and alcohol policy wise from safecom? And if so what level drug and alcohol testing can be requested?

There is a fine line and when there is a suspicion how can it be delt with "easily" and by the books so no one gets sued. LOL

 

Well n CFS it's a case of if you drive an appliance its .00 BAC

[fly]

But what can you do with the people that dont fess up to it???

[allouthere]

All emergency service require a BAC of 0.00 driving or not.How ever as mention not everybody will tell you if they have been drinking and its up to the OIC to make a judement call on if they think a person has been drinking.

[fly]

Most definitely! We never want anyone out there under the influence that is just asking for filtered trouble but some people are sneaky too!!!!

Anyone know if SAFECOM have a policy for random or any drug and alcohol testing?

 

[SA Firey]

Most definitely! We never want anyone out there under the influence that is just asking for filtered trouble but some people are sneaky too!!!!

Anyone know if SAFECOM have a policy for random or any drug and alcohol testing?

 

No there isn't to answer the question

[Pipster]

Within my brigade, the two trucks both require more than a car licence (one an LR, one an MR), which made it easier to restrict who drove.

I have a policy of allowing any member within the brigade, with a full car licence, to have the opportunity to go out in a truck with particular drivers within the brigade, and see how they go.  If the supervising driver is happy with the way they drive, then we commence a driving program with them to get them to the point of being ready to undertake their driving test.

Anyone who comes to us already with a truck licence is also taken out with particular drivers, and see how they go.

From there, as long as they have a current truck licence, and I am happy with their driving behaviour, they are permitted to drive during training and admin type runs, with an appropriate supervising driver.

We undertake training with them to ensure that they can manoeuvre a vehicle properly in our terrain (eg lots of reversing practice, and getting in & out of tight spots etc)


Once I am happy with their level of driving ability, they move to the next stage, which is driving on the fireground, and to & from incidents, but only under Priority 2 conditions.

Once I am happy with that level, then they move up to Priority 1 driving - and they must drive to 4 incidents, under priority one conditions, with an existing Priority one driver.  Once I am happy with that, they are made a priority one driver, and can drive under any conditions.

Different people develop their skills at different speeds and hence the progression through the levels is governed by the individual's progress, not what everyone else is doing.

Some may not progress beyond a particular level, other progress rapidly.

All drivers are encouraged to undertake the CFS courses (I reckon only two haven't done the courses, because they are new.)

We also have lectures regarding emergency driving SOP's, and lots of how to drive under emergency conditions (my brigade is lucky enough to have Ambos, police and former SES members all of whom have done much emergency driving!)

Within my brigade, I want to make sure that those who are out in public, driving the CFS trucks, can actually drive (it's most embarrassing watching people from other brigades try to reverse a fire truck, and just can't do it!)

And ultimately, the person driving an appliance has the lives of all those on board in their hands while they are driving.  I want to make sure that they are the safest hands they can be.

Pip

[fly]

thnx for that Pip 

[fyreman_16]

Does anyone know of any brigades or groups where P plate drivers are allowed to drive command/logistics vehicle or QRV's, say like a Landcruiser 14?

[bajdas]

Most definitely! We never want anyone out there under the influence that is just asking for filtered trouble but some people are sneaky too!!!!

Anyone know if SAFECOM have a policy for random or any drug and alcohol testing?

 

No there isn't to answer the question

Zip.tie Gi8ven you have repeated the question on "random drug & alcohol testing", it seems to be your main bug bear.

Do you have an issue.....

[fly]

Not as such an issue just a suspicion?
Personaly hate the stuff... have seen too many people hurt directly and indirectly from drug use..... And have been at enough incidents to know what it does to people and there families.
Wouldn't you want to know how others have delt with issues like this?

And for the other post i have known of P platers under safecom driving vehicles, in both CFS and SES but they have been under "driver training" and have had permission from there captain/unit manager/group officer or region staff....

 

[allouthere]

im not sure i have always only been able to drive a CFS appliance since getting a full licence but there would be brigades and units that would alow under the right conditions.
 
 Pip may be able to shed some better light on this   

[fly]

There is also the restriction on getting a truck licence by DETI.

The only thing that really irritates me about some P plate drivers is how no much the law says stick to 100km/h untill untill your on you full liscence.
you can be driving down the freeway at 110 and they scream past at atleast 120 more like 140.....
I just wish some of them got booked and lost their licences/cars so we didnt have to scrape them up later......

[Zippy]

im 3 weeks away..after a looong wait...from getting the full car drivers license,  and trust me, i get tail gated daily doing 100km/h....so what do you expect of P platers...

The otherside of the coin always has something to say...

[Mike]

There will always be a diverse range of driving skills on our roads....
Stereo typing them doesnt do much except annoy the people that dont fit.

We follow much the same process as Pip. It works reasonably well.
For those that do not have a full licence, there are supervised vehicle runs, that way they can learn without the rest of the crew.

[Pipster]

Remember there is a difference between legislation and policy  - while the law may say you can do something, the policy of your organisation says you can't - breaching the policy has a consequence, even if the law says that you can do something!

Pip

[Chinny]

I'm a "P" plater and I drive our vehicles P2 and on training nights along the fire tracks.

[Pipster]

The CFS COSO on driving includes specifics on P plate drivers, and what they can & can't do...

Pip

[fyreman_16]

Hate to be annoying Pip, but do you have a basic break down of these?

[Pipster]

It's all in the COSO's, which is at my station...,...(so everyone in the brigade can see it!!)

I'll grab a copy, and let you know the specifics.....

Pip

[Jimmy_91]

I'm not Pip, but:

• Drivers with a probationary license (“P plates”) may drive a CFS vehicle to or from an
  emergency incident under Priority 2 conditions but must  not undertake Priority 1
  driving. (Not including CFS appliances requiring a truck licence).
• Drivers with a learner’s permit (“L plates” must not undertake Priority 1 driving or drive
  a CFS vehicle to or from an emergency incident. They may only drive CFS vehicles as
  defined under the Road Traffic Act.

Extract from COSO 7: Driving CFS Vehicles.

Hope this helps.

[fyreman_16]

Thanks a heap guys 

[BundyBear]

Have to agree with Pip any Captain worth anything will have a driving program in place to train their potential drivers.

Another thing most want to be drivers forget if you don't know that pump back to front don't worry about driving!