Author Topic: Half empty courses  (Read 5897 times)

Darren

  • Guest
Half empty courses
« on: November 18, 2009, 03:57:18 PM »
We have been talking at the station about some of the crazy things CFS staff do...yes we were there a while....and were wondering, does anyone else find it strange that CFS would rather cancel a course or run it partly empty than ring around brigades that have people champing at the bit to get on.

For example, my brigade has an SFEC for 16 BA operators, but we currently have 19, can't get a look in for a course for several years, the reason is, other brigades are low on BA operators. That's fair enough, even though I think it's stupid to have a cap on BA operators, but that's another story !

But we have had people go on courses and they have not been at full capacity, had someone go on  a re-accred with 6 people on it !! Then we find ourselves in a situation where we have people about to lose BA as they can't get on a course or were unable to make it to the allotted times given.

I don't see why more reserves aren't put on courses. Does it really matter of your over your cap ?
I know people are going to say that we only have certain numbers, and that these brigades with low numbers are still missing out. But who cares, my brigade wears BA more often than not, we need those numbers to support our operation. We might have 19, but when you do the stats not to many are around during the day.
Now before you say "well its your fault for not getting your numbers right" then hang on, these people have been BA for a number of years and are on their 3rd or 4th re-accred. How do you tell them not to do BA because CFS has a rule on numbers.

That is CFS's solution, drop below 16 and we will look at it.....righto

Why can't we put names forward for last minute courses ?

Why is CFS still so intent on running 5 yearly re-accred's ?

Why can't they save themselves a bucket by having group or brigade trainers, much the same way the CFA do?

Wouldn't it be easier to run a couple courses for BA trainers to upskill, then pass on to members, you wouldn't run into the issues of people missing their re-accred dates and because STC BA department have NO flexibility they would rather see someone lose BA, then get to re-accred.

When is the CFS going to wake up to the fact that there is more to life than BUSHFIRES !!!!!!!

You constantly see pager messages for courses being cancelled due to numbers....I know we are our own worst enemy, but come on, ring around, ring another region for goodness sake....but just make sure you don't drive to far....haha

I don't know, that's my whinge, I just don't get it......it almost seems as though CFS would rather not run any courses.....and in a way, they don't have to if they change the way they do training, they LOVE to burden themselves with courses at the STC, I know its expensive place and need people to go there, but not at the expense of people missing out, thats insane!

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 04:41:35 PM »
Quote
I don't see why more reserves aren't put on courses. Does it really matter of your over your cap ?

Have your BTO and GTO submit nominations non-stop every month, re nominate, re nominate, re nominate!

SFEC's for training should be dropped, Groups should do an annual review of how many of any sort of training they need done in the next year...Region should do a combination of all groups review's....the State should be able to cater well, rather than poor planning.

E.g my Brigade:  we need to get about 3 BA operators done, 2 Hazmat's, All Resus reaccredited, Lots of BA Refreshers, fair amount of First Aid's, LOTS of plantation and suppress wildfires.   No need for Off Road Driving & BF1 for us for a while...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 04:45:36 PM by Zippy »

Offline SA Firey

  • Forum Group Officer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,967
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 08:45:24 PM »
Not to mention the courses you do then they fail to provide an opportunity to stay accreditted, and continue to be a resource to the brigade :-P
Images are copyright

Offline Blue

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 01:30:07 PM »
Stop and have a think about the logistics of it for just a second. X numbers of fireys with varying needs for their area or brigade, all with varying degrees of commitment/time to undertake training and retraining, all have lives with responsibilities outside of CFS and so can't all be free at the same moment in time, plus getting trainers and resources organised for each course, then the cost of running the training itself or reimbursing travel etc etc.

The mind boggles. I think they need a pat on the back for getting any courses up and happening at all!

Offline CFS_Firey

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,250
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 08:57:31 PM »
Totally agree with you Darren! I don't think I've ever been on a course where every has been able to make it.  There are plenty of brigades within 40 minutes drive of Brukunga, and believe it or not, there are a lot of keen young people that are willing to give up a weekend at short notice.
I don't think we should stop there though - I seem to recall Hazmat courses being canned last year because they could find people to nominate on them - if they'd opened them up to non-hazmat brigades, I'm pretty sure they would have filled them with ease.
...and then they have the cheek to deny the CFS is underfunded.

Offline CFS_fire32

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 03:39:36 PM »
My pet subject...

CABA is one of the CFS's biggest vulnerabilities and has been for some time. I think from memeory of the 15,000 volunteers in the CFS only about 1,500 are CABA? (Correct me if I am wrong).

There are a lot of CFS's brigades out there (mine included) at their minimum SFEC, that still desperately need more operators (especially operators with daytime availability), but we can't get anyone on a course. We have the people wanting to do the course, but we have no chance what so ever of getting them on.

So what is the solution? We obviously need more courses to train more people, but the CFS are putting enough strain on the volunteer istructors as it is! Is it time we got serious and started paying instructors? Should we try holding more mid-week courses again? I know a lot of people that would rather take a couple days annual leave from work than give up a whole weekend (myself included).

We sent a member (from R1) down to Naracoorte a couple weeks ago (one of our members was going down to help as an instructor so we got offered a spot) and apparently the course was only half full! I am certain that if the course was open up to R1 or R2 that it could have been filled quite easily (and quickly).

It would be interesting to compare the number of operators that the CFS are gaining each year versus the number they are loosing due to retirement, people leaving the service, etc. I have a feeling that we are not making much forward progress as a whole.

It is something that seriously needs to be looked at by the CFS. I believe there is a review being done at the moment, but I am yet to hear anything from it. Things are only getting worse and for most brigade's it is only getting harder and harder to crew with CABA during the daytime.

Darren

  • Guest
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 04:44:31 PM »
Prime example is the fire at Mt Barker.....so many brigades with crew but no BA...see if anything happens with that....I doubt it.

Offline crashndash

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 06:55:05 PM »
maybe we should look at how many people we have lost as instructors over the last few years and ask why that is......its not workload....

Offline Blue

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 10:15:02 AM »
maybe we should look at how many people we have lost as instructors over the last few years and ask why that is......its not workload....

Personal view -
Workload is one. Travel is long and your weekends are totally eaten up. CABA courses can be very hard yakka (and should be). They do come at signficant personal cost, of which CFS makes an effort to contribute (travel costs reimbursed for example). But for regional trainers the travel time is a killer.
The training is another. The lack of dedication to serious training and a serious commitment to OHS&W. The realisation that too many volunteers pass a course feeling that they are a BA operator, when they have simply learned how to don a set. Every CABA wearer should undertake live fire training at Brukunga and carry out some other brigade minimum in order to be called a BA operator.
Just a few reasons for your interest.

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 11:07:43 AM »
maybe we should look at how many people we have lost as instructors over the last few years and ask why that is......its not workload....

Personal view -
Workload is one. Travel is long and your weekends are totally eaten up. CABA courses can be very hard yakka (and should be). They do come at signficant personal cost, of which CFS makes an effort to contribute (travel costs reimbursed for example). But for regional trainers the travel time is a killer.
The training is another. The lack of dedication to serious training and a serious commitment to OHS&W. The realisation that too many volunteers pass a course feeling that they are a BA operator, when they have simply learned how to don a set. Every CABA wearer should undertake live fire training at Brukunga and carry out some other brigade minimum in order to be called a BA operator.
Just a few reasons for your interest.

Got it in One.

OHS&W is being met now,  time for a bit of dedication towards the serious training.

Offline Firefrog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Half empty courses
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 07:41:04 PM »
why not have a wearers course single day......With an introduction to suppression in CFBT containers on the second. Will get more benefit wearing a BA in CFBT than the BATA doing guidelines.....when will we learn.

 

anything