Mount Barker Fire Cover

[CFS_fire32]

Does this fact that Mount Barker having 2 pumpers in two years time mean that the rumour of an MFS station (retained) being established in Mount Barker is nothing more than fiction?

[strikeathird]

Who knows.  Rumors are Rumors.  They always will be !

[TillerMan]

Unfortunetly this may give M.F.S more fire power to move in because if you need two pumpers to cope with the town maybe you need a paid crew. Make sure you keep pushing your rural aspect or else you may end up with just a 24 and 14.......

[CFS_Firey]

Unfortunetly this may give M.F.S more fire power to move in because if you need two pumpers to cope with the town maybe you need a paid crew. Make sure you keep pushing your rural aspect or else you may end up with just a 24 and 14.......

I don't mean to say that Mount Barker CFS can't handle it, but if they are getting enough jobs that MFS want to move in, maybe its time the MFS did move in, to give the CFS a break?

[24P]

I don't mean to say that Mount Barker CFS can't handle it, but if they are getting enough jobs that MFS want to move in, maybe its time the MFS did move in, to give the CFS a break?

Do they want a break? maybe they're happy serving their community no matter how many calls they get?

[strikeathird]

They may well be happy servicing the community, but if the risk gets great enough that a Paid station is warranted, I think MFS will go ahead and move in.  Even if CFS are attending all the calls, because they can't  " ALWAYS " gaurentee a crew, MFS have 'just' cause to build a station, and use CFS for Rural and back up response.

[Firefrog]

This topic began in Mt Barker pumper and was split to keep the two conversations separate.

My Opinion
CFS Gazetted area = CFS response, have a paid day crew. Nights are generally ok for a CFS response days are difficult everywhere.

Cheaper for CFS to have a permanent day crew than put in a whole MFS station. To run one MFS pump you would need 16 people - 4 crews of 4 running standard 4 0n 4 off. at around the $50+K a year each.

CFS could have lets say 4 or 5 paid people with some others who could step in for illness or leave. Lots of politics and brigade issues to work through but it's cheap and solves the problem.

This is just a train of thought I have nil knowledge of the Mt Barker area or specific issues.

Do you think this could work for CFS??

[corocfs]

My Opinion
CFS Gazetted area = CFS response, have a paid day crew. Nights are generally ok for a CFS response days are difficult everywhere.

Cheaper for CFS to have a permanent day crew than put in a whole MFS station. To run one MFS pump you would need 16 people - 4 crews of 4 running standard 4 0n 4 off. at around the $50+K a year each.
[/qoute]

[qoute]

Do you think this could work for CFS??

how is it cheaper for the CFS to put in a paid day-crew than it is for MFS to build there own station, put in appliances, pay crews... the MFS option costs CFS nothing, but would however probably free up two appliances to be placed in other station...

surely if MFS moved in they would bring a pump and a rescue  and Barker would be downgraded to rural only, with the exception of backing up mfs if a cranking job happened... thus freeing a pumper and a 24p(or 24) for other stations round the state...

"do you think it would work?"

no.... my reasoning being that the CFS as an organisation is built on the fact that it is vollunteer. this is where most of the morale comes from.. the people that are there are doing it becasue they enjoy it, not for the money. and this is also where a lot fo the public support comes from...

btw... i know that the mount barker guys would be peeved to get the boot, or downgrade, but i personally think that there call rate and high risk, deserves a fulltime station, able to respond 24/7.

im not dissing them,. but every station has the occasionall bad day when they are unable to respond..

edited: so my qoute made sense.... tried to put tow qoutes in one post... didnt work well.. nevermind, still doesnt make sense, and i think i misread a little bit... aaargh...

[oz fire]

Great call Mike,

Caught up with RO Creak, ex CFS Regional Officer, who is now a CFA Operations Officer at the comps on the weekend. He stated in the region he manages (Region 4 - S/W Vic)he manages Volunteer, Retained and Paid crews.

When questioned as to problems with the three tiers in one service, he said initially yes, however it was personalities, not the job, service or community. Apparently there are still personality issues, however the culture, beginning as a volunteer service and being remote from Melbourne ensures that the paid and retained crews enhance and en brace the volunteers

Personalities have it again ......... if only people focused on the job at hand and not personalities then we could all be professional and not focus on the rate of pay.

Bring on paid crews in CFS, I say, providing they are warranted and intergrated into the current crewing and structure, not a side ways tack on!!!!!

[Mike]

Great call?

Dont remember saying anything

[Roger]

What if the Fire Services established agreed response criteria, including response time targets to gazetted response areas? This seems to work well in the CFA where an urban brigade must, for arguments sake, be on the road within 4 minutes and arrive at all areas within 10 minutes for at least 90% of their calls. (times are made up here..). If the Brigade continually cannot meet the criteria then the Brigade and the Group/Region is obliged to consider putting full-time staff in to provide appropriate fire cover. At least then these decisions are based on pre-determined measurable data and is objective.

The Brigades also have the option to ask the Region to install a day crew, 24hr crews etc to help if the vols aren't coping with the workload, but if they meet their targets and are happy to stay fully vol then why change it? A good example might be Scoresby CFA where they do over 600 calls annually but remain proudly 100% Vol. Another nearby stn has less calls but the crews were struggling to the point where they asked for a paid crew, but were happy to back up for working incidents.

It's all about being responsible for your area of responsibility and ensuring fire coverage is maintained.

MFS may well be looking at Mt Barker for the future, but as long as the Vols are happy and meeting response targets I fail to see the justification for putting full time crews in their place.

Roger
AFO

[fire03rescue]

I think that Scoresby CFA has one member at the station fulltime. They also have a few members who service fire extinguishers and the money goes back into the brigade to pay wages

[JamesGar]

If only it was so easy... few comment from above about gazetted fire areas MFS vs CFS, and paid fire fighters in the CFS.

Firstly I think the CFS needs to be progressive and future driven, not just responding to current needs. So in this the need in some areas for the CFS to have paid career firefighters and retained firefighters may arise.

Secondly the MFS isn't just going to move into an another fire services area purely on call rate, if so then Dalkieth and Salisbury would have a greater MFS presence. Further to this how would other communties such as Peterborough, Wallaroo, Moonta, Victor Harbor and so on like it if the CFS moved in and said we're the fire service now. The MFS in Tanunda has a larger operating budget with 5 retained firefighter than the whole of the Angaston group. I say explain that!

Thirdly, if Mount Barker CFS is maintaining adequate day time crewing to respond to the communities needs, why pay a significant wage to career firefighters to cover the same risk! Suddenly becomes a very expensive exercise. Don't think that having the MFS move into the CFS area wouldn't effect that CFS region and groups funding, The additional costing would have top come from somewhere.

I guess an easier way of fixing crew would be to integrate the fire services in this state in a controlled manner, then a communities requirements for a fire service would be managed in a equitable manner from post code to post code, not as is current as per a gazetted line on a piece of paper.

I say let volunteers be volunteers. If they can handle the job let them. You don't see SAAS kicking our volunteers out of stations just because they're busy! Just support them as best as we can!

[kat]

The CFA may manage with fully paid, retained, volunteers and a mix of all of the above. But Victoria still has two fire services

And media reports that spring to mind would indicate that the CFA and the MFB have not always had the most harmonious relationship.

[rescue5271]

Firstly the CFA does not have retained firfighters,the members that service fire equipment are paid as service tech like any other fire protection firm.. scoresby CFA have one full time snr firefighter who is paid staff so as help cover crew shortfalls at this station. I have been in a vol/paid station and it works well CFA also now have alot more paid staff working with volunteers closer to the CBD and in many cases its only two paid staff as is the case at portland/w/bool ...

I have always said if a brigade is happy doing 350 calls a year then let them it just shows how community monded they are,but should the need arise that they need help then why can't CFS put in paid staff during the day to help them out??? Remember its not only call out's its PR work that we should also be looking at how many school visits and site inspectionsthey do.. The CFA also have another system that I have talked about in the past where the brigade as a paid staff member to do school and site inspections called a BASO who's role it is to do all admin,inspections,and purchase officer work for the group.....

May be it would be nice if we all waited to hear what someone from mount baker said and what they want???

Does anyone know what MFS station is the busiest retained station?  Mount Gambier they did 520 calls last year...

[strikeathird]

I believe it is Gambier.

[Wagon 1]

I guess in a way this arguement could be reversed by saying how many of SAMFS retained stations should be volunteer, I can name a large number. So I guess until the powers to be decide otherwise, Mt Barker will keep making runs and looking after thier community.

[Roger]

The stats from 2002-3 showed the top are;
70 Mt Gmbier   501
52 Whyalla   454
50 Pt Pirie   349
72 Murr Brg   304
54 Pt Lincoln   284
51 Pt Augusta   278
(from annual report on-line at http://www.samfs.sa.gov.au/publications/pdfs/R%20%20Text%2002-03.pdf )
Not sure about 2004-5 yet...but I have no doubt that Mt Gambier & Whyalla will be 1 & 2 again.

[kat]

So what were the bottom figures?

[Roger]

2002-2003 figures were listed as follows;

Mt Gambier   501
Whyalla   454
Pt Pirie   349
Murray Bridge   304
Pt Lincoln   284
Pt Augusta   278
Berri   169
Renmark   156
Victor Harbor   149
Kadina   103
Loxton   93
Tanunda   89
Wallaroo   45
Moonta   43
Peterborough   38
Burra   38
Kapunda   33

[oz fire]

Tradition verses value for money?

Glad to see that SA remians a health, wealthy state, where economic rationalisation is not a consideration.

With the execption of maybe Pt Lincioln, Whyalla, Mt Gambier - I can't see any towns with risks that a CFS brigade couldn't manage without excessive equipment upgrades

Makes you wonder - does Pt Pirie need both career and retained crews??

[Wagon 1]

I think you summed it up, Tradition mate, and a very strong union!!

[Firefrog]

How about Tanunda has very healthy CFS brigade and SAMFS retained and only a few thousand people.

[24P]

How about Tanunda has very healthy CFS brigade and SAMFS retained and only a few thousand people.

Not to mention the MFS up there gets as much money allocated to them as the whole of the Angaston Group

[corocfs]

Makes you wonder - does Pt Pirie need both career and retained crews??

probably not necessary anymore... was in place due to the Pazminco site, however since the area has downgraded a bit i think retainees could handle it themselves.

but i mean... in all honesty i agree with something GoodTimes once said... i would much rather sit in my home knowing that there was a full crew of firies waiting at the station should an call occur rather than risk a volunteer/retained truck not be able to respond or being delayed.