New Rescue van for CFS

[bajdas]

Playing Devils Advocate....

Maybe this should be considered has a specialist extension to the fire truck.

Lots of people complain that the current 34 fire truck is:

* not enough locker space to fit RCR gear into => Van provides extra space.
* larger trucks will not fit into brigade sheds. => smaller extensions with lower height roofs can be built to accomodate van.
* not flexible enough in layout to meet changing or specific => van can be modified to provide for hazmat or rescue or something else.
* unable to tow trailers with pumps, collar dams, etc, etc behind fire truck => I have seen trailers behind group cars. Maybe they can be towed behind a Van.
* 34 fire truck is too big to go in some hills driveways or streets => if Van emptied, it could carry pump & hoses or tow trailer to incident.
* Not enough crew space to carry personal gear or people => Van has extra seats, which also means more leg room if both vehicles used for a crew of four.
* Fire truck too heavy when in rural fire off-road => less gear means less weight. You dont need the rescue gear at a rural fire or strike team do you ?
* Fire truck slow speed up hill under lights/sirens => less gear means less weight. Van will also be quicker.
* Fire truck responding to tree downs seem an overkill => Van can do this.
* Not enough group cars to transport volunteers to meetings or training, Volunteers have to use their own transport => Van can be emptied & this can be used.

Otherwise, get a tandem trailer to provide the extra space (this will get a reaction) like SES.

It is a pity that a design of a POD to fit over the crew deck that can be lifted on & off to provide the extra space. But I think the height & weight (when loaded) would be an issue.

OK, Hyundai donated the Van for CFS to play with. I would guess they satisfied the donation by making a discussion point because Hyundai would be hoping for more sales.

If you got a slip-on box (one for hazmat, another for Rescue, another water tank and a flat tray for general transport) on a small vehicle....could that work has your extra locker space ?

[safireservice]

Just interesed to see what happened with this? I beleive its still floating around somewhere? I havent seen any pics and the link on page 3 doesnt have any photos anymore. Sorry to drag up an old thread but was interested in the photos and how it was set up.

[rescue5271]

I did a RCR upskill late last year and the RARTOS had it down here but they where not happy with it as the petrol fume's from the RCR PUMPS was making them sick.

[misterteddy]

Just interesed to see what happened with this? I beleive its still floating around somewhere? I havent seen any pics and the link on page 3 doesnt have any photos anymore. Sorry to drag up an old thread but was interested in the photos and how it was set up.

used as a run around/general purpose vehicle for Brukunga and the RCR/Hazmat guys

[pumprescue]

In other words....not a succesful idea....thank god...

[JJD]

I beleive the RARTOs are using it for upskills, general running around, etc. and its based at Brukunga.

Ive had a look over it and been for a joyride.

The concept is great but the execution needs a LOT of work. Using a different vehicle platform (rather than the cheapest available vehicle) would be an excellent start. A larger vehicle would be preferential.

The fume issue is because the pump is mounted on a sliding carriage in the back. Even with the carriage in the out position, the upward hingeing rear door directs fumes straight back into the cabin area. (The rear door is also too low for the average person to stand upright under. Fully opening doors (like the ambulances) would help prevent this while staying out of the way. Some sort of divider between the passenger compartment and load area would also be more beneficial.

My thoughts only, it all comes down to $$$ and the concept was built on a pretty tight budget.

[bajdas]

A few of the new SES Transit Vans have been in service for a period of time now in various configurations.

I THINK, Murray Bridge & Mount Gambier have the RCR configurations.

Does anyone have info / feedback on these Vans ?

God forbid if we actually shared the same equipment setup between services in SA....what am I thinking   

[Robert-Robert34]

Personally i think the concept of having vans fitted out as RCR vehicles is a great idea that has potential come to fruition although as fore-mentioned above the issue of fumes has to be dealt with first in order for this idea to go ahead with

One remedy/possibility that comes to mind would be to have a specialised slide out tray that comes out of the back and allows crew to lift up the generator and place it on the ground

[Pipster]

But as had been said before, if you have a stand alone rescue vehicle of any sort, you still need a fire appliance for fire cover.....

Pip

[rescue5271]

I have not seen one in Gambier SES station they still have the rescue truck there was talk of vans but then there was talks of them having just a trailer with all the RCR gear in it....As pip said stand alone rscue's still req a fire appliances...

[JJD]

But as had been said before, if you have a stand alone rescue vehicle of any sort, you still need a fire appliance for fire cover.....

Pip

C'mon this is basic stuff everybody should know...

SOP 2.1 Initial resource response shedule

Incident type: Road crash rescue

Response to incident: 1st alarm (initial response)

1xRescue
1xTANKER (for fire cover)

So, THEORETICALLY (yes i know theory doesn't always work) every time a rescue appliance rolls another tanker should be on the go as well, regardless of whether the said rescue appliance has water or not.

[Alex]

But as had been said before, if you have a stand alone rescue vehicle of any sort, you still need a fire appliance for fire cover.....

Pip

That should not be a factor when building appliances though.

Yes it saves a lot of money to make 'pump/rescues' or whack RCR gear on a 34P, but it also means that RCR equipment that is meant to service a wide area, regularly gets tied up at fire scenes. This then obviously means there is heavily reduced coverage for the community.

[Alan J]

But as had been said before, if you have a stand alone rescue vehicle of any sort, you still need a fire appliance for fire cover.....

Pip

So roll an appliance as well.
From another brigade if needs be.
The extra hands will likely be useful anyway.

cheers

[6739264]

The Rescue van concept is a good one, just the CFS's implementation of it is yet again lacking. If other states can do it and do it properly, why does the CFS again and again screw the pooch on implementation.

It's almost as if they take a great idea and then actively work to destroy it. If you took a round wheel, would you try to reinvent it and make it square? No. But the CFS would.

As for the Pump fume issue, how many people run their motor powered equipment while its still sitting in a locker or on a roll out shelf with the exhaust directed back into the truck? Exactly, no-one... So god forbid, take the pump OUT of its stowage location before use...

It's not hard.

[rescue5271]

Numbers its got nothing to do with fumes while they are at a job as the pump is removed from the van the issue is that the fuel in the pump and spare fuel fumes are getting into the open cab. May be if CFS spent a little more time looking into what other services are doing rather than look at a photo that may solve some of the problems...

[Zippy]

A good start of where to look: Victoria and New south wales.

[6739264]

Numbers its got nothing to do with fumes while they are at a job as the pump is removed from the van the issue is that the fuel in the pump and spare fuel fumes are getting into the open cab. May be if CFS spent a little more time looking into what other services are doing rather than look at a photo that may solve some of the problems...

Ref:

The fume issue is because the pump is mounted on a sliding carriage in the back. Even with the carriage in the out position, the upward hingeing rear door directs fumes straight back into the cabin area.

?

[tft]

So the SOP say.
1xRescue
1xTANKER (for fire cover)
But in the real world where the CFS is short of crews and drivers. A CFS rescue van is a waste of time. How many brigades default? So a rescue appliance needs a pump(fire). It just make basic sense and could help save lives. How many times do rescue brigades respond with only 4 or 5 and 1 driver?
Yes other resources are responded often with delay.
 
Check the CFS pager site and listen to the scanner over the next few weeks. To see how many times crews default or have a slow response.

 

[Pipster]

And interestingly, CFS have done their best in recent years to get rid of stand alone rescues, and replace them with fire appliances that carry RCR gear!!

Pip

[rescue5271]

Does anyone have a photo of the Victorian rescue vans?? are they RCR vans or just CABA refill vans??? CFA dont have these van's and wont as they like their big rescue trucks and they have more gear on them than we do....

[6739264]

So the SOP say.
1xRescue
1xTANKER (for fire cover)
But in the real world where the CFS is short of crews and drivers. A CFS rescue van is a waste of time. How many brigades default? So a rescue appliance needs a pump(fire). It just make basic sense and could help save lives. How many times do rescue brigades respond with only 4 or 5 and 1 driver?
Yes other resources are responded often with delay.
 
Check the CFS pager site and listen to the scanner over the next few weeks. To see how many times crews default or have a slow response.

Why is it a waste of time? If anything it removes the slower response time. If the theory was applied correctly it would require seat only a crew of 3 (min crew as per SACFS SOP AND RCRRD). Lets not forget that a rescue van should require only a C class license, not an MR like current Rescue appliances. This eliminates common issue of not having a truck driver.

You have a larger pool of drivers, only requires 3 crew, has extinguishers on board, just needs a hose line from the Fire Appliance. As per SOP, a Fire Appliance will be responding, be it from the same brigade as the rescue van, or from an adjoining brigade. In your example of 4 or 5 person and 1 driver, why not have 3 take the Rescue van and get to work, while the other 1 and driver, wait a few minutes for crew, if not, then go mobile to provide fire protection? That is without considering the arrival of any other resources.

Does anyone have a photo of the Victorian rescue vans?? are they RCR vans or just CABA refill vans??? CFA dont have these van's and wont as they like their big rescue trucks and they have more gear on them than we do....

If it was just a CABA refill van, would it be called a "Rescue Van"??

A quick googling of Rescue Van brings up links to the NSWFB Rescue Van seating 2 persons on a Merc Sprinter chassis. Can't find any links to any Victorian Rescue Van via google.

Let's not get started on the fact that CFS doesn't stow any Rescue gear beyond the BASIC MVA Rescue Hydraulic gear. It's shameful.

[Alan J]

Thinking about the sort of gear that RCR vehicles carry,
and watching the way they work, I'm not sure a van is the
best place to start the build.

A 3T cab/chassis might be a better basis, with compartmented box.
All items directly accessible from exterior of the vehicle.
All 'heavies' on low-level slide-out trays, 'smalls' in labelled tubs.
Something like what this lot make. http://xl.com.au/index.php

Maybe a bit bigger. Like an SEM light pumper minus the pump & plumbing.
http://www.semfirerescue.com.au/pumpers.php   Which should bring the
cost down. Or keep the tank & a dinky pump in case there's a delay
getting a fire appliance to the scene.

pretty pointless speculating at the moment though isn't it?
CFS ain't got any money to buy anything.

[6739264]

Thinking about the sort of gear that RCR vehicles carry,
and watching the way they work, I'm not sure a van is the
best place to start the build.

A 3T cab/chassis might be a better basis, with compartmented box.
All items directly accessible from exterior of the vehicle.
All 'heavies' on low-level slide-out trays, 'smalls' in labelled tubs.
Something like what this lot make. http://xl.com.au/index.php

Or maybe, god forbid, we look at the Rescue appliances that nearly every other fire service in the country builds, and build one to a similar spec? The core issue here is that we are using the already sub-standard CFS "Rescue" stowage as a starting point and thus it leads us to a small vehicle. The Rescue stowage itself is abysmal, so why do we not work that out, and then find a vehicle that stows a full Rescue kit properly.

RCR is not the be all and end all of Rescue, contrary to what CFS would have us believe. But hey, I guess if we continue to downgrade our capability, then a station wagon with a combi tool and mini ram in the back will be fine. Ok, maybe without the ram. To keep costs down.

[misterteddy]

RCR is not the be all and end all of Rescue, contrary to what CFS would have us believe. But hey, I guess if we continue to downgrade our capability, then a station wagon with a combi tool and mini ram in the back will be fine. Ok, maybe without the ram. To keep costs down.

don't really need a station wagon..... A little Brumby Ute with 2 people would be fine (makes response numbers/defaults and driver availability better) - smaller carbon footprint too to be topically politically correct.

[6739264]

RCR is not the be all and end all of Rescue, contrary to what CFS would have us believe. But hey, I guess if we continue to downgrade our capability, then a station wagon with a combi tool and mini ram in the back will be fine. Ok, maybe without the ram. To keep costs down.

don't really need a station wagon..... A little Brumby Ute with 2 people would be fine (makes response numbers/defaults and driver availability better) - smaller carbon footprint too to be topically politically correct.

Scrap the brumby, I think the Combi Tool will fit in the boot of a 2 seat Smart Car! Just gotta get the charging stations installed about the response area...