Author Topic: Are we kidding ourselves? (Read 28658 times)

Zippy · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2009, 09:09:20 PM »

Thats what ESTA is in Victora, crashnddash....

Worthwhile dream of having a similar organisation here ey...

crashndash · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2009, 09:32:17 PM »

agree Zip...not to say they do it well there....but they are much further advanced than us.

We are hamstrung to a system driven by one organisation for what they want...and whatever everyone else can get out of them is a lottery.

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2009, 09:35:23 PM »

Quote

As someone has said Victoria have 3 regional call centre's,so should we also have one in a regional area???

This kinda reminds me of back when SAAS had regional call centres before everything was centralised to Adelaide everytime an emergency call requiring CFS response went through any call centre a page would be sent out

SAAS: Respond ______ Station
CFSRES

Too bad we cant go back to the regional call centres now

Darren · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2009, 11:11:21 PM »

Have people forgotten that they are currently buidling the CAD system for all agencies.....Of course they aren't going to spend more money on an out of date system that won't be used soon.

crashndash · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2009, 11:19:55 PM »

of course...all hail SACAD....for thou art the saviour.....brought to you by the people who gave you, I mean charge you for.....the SAGRN..lolol

Darren · « **Reply #30 on:** July 01, 2009, 11:51:38 PM »

There is that, but I have seen the trial version, shites all over what we have now.....we could always go back to the old fire phone system with the special button that activated the siren and bells, I remember that as a kid. I also remember Glen Osmond 441 responding to a house fire at mt barker, but hey, whats progress...

bajdas · « **Reply #31 on:** July 02, 2009, 12:11:09 AM »

People knock SACAD concept, but having SAAS Comcen able to dispatch all resources to a road crash seems to be a huge advantage for example. Because all four comcens will be on the same database they will all see and dispatch from the same data.

Then if one ComCen is overloaded, then another ComCen can easily assist with processing the calls.

Not sure how each agency will handle Operations Support after dispatch has been completed though. Will wait and see what business plans and procedures each agency implement.

bajdas · « **Reply #32 on:** July 02, 2009, 12:17:59 AM »

Quote from: crashndash on July 01, 2009, 09:01:13 PM

i can't be bothered arguing about how good we were or werent yesterday....but seriously if you guys think yesterday was a great example of how a quality CRD system works....then great, sleep soundly tonight
.............

I agree the system failed in some respects. But I have seen it fail a lot worse previously processing less calls.

It will get better when processes and computer systems are refined. It will never be perfect and everyone needs to strive to do better.

Without change it would be boring volunteering in Operations...

(yeah it is boring sometimes...hee hee)

chook · « **Reply #33 on:** July 02, 2009, 06:50:54 AM »

So Zippy & Crash are you promoting the Vic model? The same one that is being criticised in the commission now? And you keep pointing to a Summer time "big one" - that may not be the incident that will cause the call/comm centre to fall over - think earthquake, tempest that sought of thing. And having sub comm cens located in rural/semi rural areas would have to be co-ordinated a lot better than the Vic model
Finally yeah we were all sad to see the demise of the local SAAS comcen, however its happened move on! The same thing is happening in every state, comms being centralised in the city, why? cost & control. As I said the system ain't perfect & there is always room for improvement - but there are much bigger issues. You can have a 21 century communications system, not much point when you have nothing to dispatch

For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500

cheers

Zippy · « **Reply #34 on:** July 02, 2009, 09:30:12 AM »

Yeah i actually am....Because Victoria already use what we call SACAD pretty much

and we're praising SACAD arent we??

Im promoting it because its by far better than what we have now....how we can right now stand up to royal commissions now beats me!!!

jaff · « **Reply #35 on:** July 02, 2009, 10:06:42 AM »

I think to a big degree, what we move forward with (SACAD is a given..........All hail SACAD) will be shaped too a degree by some findings in Victoria!
That being said, I think its a good thing, there is no point relearning lessons of the past and a lot of what went on and didnt go on that day, could be used too model our system!

jaff · « **Reply #36 on:** July 02, 2009, 10:12:12 AM »

Quote from: chook on July 01, 2009, 06:08:09 PM

No Jaff I don't support mediocrity - far from it!

Just checking Chook................thought those damm Mexicans might of had their way with you!

chook · « **Reply #37 on:** July 02, 2009, 10:41:19 AM »

No mate - just reflecting on some stuff I did about teamwork & change management(3 day leadership cse) & the fact that you can't have a successful team if everything is in the negative. And a wise person on this site (wouldn't know who they might be

)gave me some very sage advice a while ago when I had a very black outlook on the emergency services in SA. So whilst I agree that things are not perfect & should be improved, people need to remember where we were (by the way things are not perfect here either - had to borrow a ute from council as ours wasn't allowed to be driven!). And with some other potential changes coming latter in the year in SA, it might not pay to be seen as the naysayers all of the time - if you know what I mean! And everyone is quite right - quietly accepting below standard performance isn't the way to go, starting fights over every conceivable subject isn't either (fight the important fights & the one you are guaranteed to win was what I was always told). Anyway mate take it easy cheers

crashndash · « **Reply #38 on:** July 02, 2009, 12:31:29 PM »

Quote from: chook on July 02, 2009, 06:50:54 AM

For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500
cheers

actually in SA, please call 000 for emergencies, and reserve other numbers for non emergency functions

crashndash · « **Reply #39 on:** July 02, 2009, 12:42:56 PM »

Quote from: chook on July 02, 2009, 06:50:54 AM

So Zippy & Crash are you promoting the Vic model? The same one that is being criticised in the commission now? And you keep pointing to a Summer time "big one" - that may not be the incident that will cause the call/comm centre to fall over - think earthquake, tempest that sought of thing. And having sub comm cens located in rural/semi rural areas would have to be co-ordinated a lot better than the Vic model
Finally yeah we were all sad to see the demise of the local SAAS comcen, however its happened move on! The same thing is happening in every state, comms being centralised in the city, why? cost & control. As I said the system ain't perfect & there is always room for improvement - but there are much bigger issues. You can have a 21 century communications system, not much point when you have nothing to dispatch
For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500
cheers

and why is it being criticised?? Chook......because there wasnt a sufficient capacity to deal with incoming 000 calls and farm out the jobs. Thats not saying the system is perfect (as i highlighted previously), just that it was under resourced on that day - although as has been heard already, no amount of resources would have coped on the one particular day. Our system couldnt cope with a piddling 200ish jobs from 0900-1100 on the day.

Until you get the jobs on the table, we have no hope of knowing what we deal with in any response to major incidents. As for SAAS Coms handling overflow 000 fire/rescue calls....good luck with that...lol, I'd be very surprised if you'd ever see that happen....and if it is put on the table, watch for the AEU to push for a big payrise for EOC staff (rightly so - down Boredy...lol).

As for the old just because it is done in every other state that makes it right thing......go read some overseas literature, there is plenty of examples of large overseas agencies (LAFD, CFD and NYFD) moving to County or Borough CRD Centres, to allow sectorising of their cities in the event of major incidents.... wow, but of course we know better, cant ever trust those overseas types.

chook · « **Reply #40 on:** July 02, 2009, 01:28:03 PM »

No Crash at what point did I say "can't trust the overseas types"?
And the 132500 number is the NATIONAL number for storm & flood emergencies (last time I checked SA was part of Australia) - why do you find that a problem?
If the population actually used the above number for that purpose then 000 would not over flow during storm events!
I didn't say decentralisation was a bad idea but it ain't happening in this country & have a look at the areas in the US (who do major emergency management so well), they have huge populations. If you decentralise CAD/COMMS how do you coordinate? how do you equip them? how do you fund them? Yes there needs to be improvements, but as I said previously there is a big Investigation currently going on over the border & have a feeling that when the recommendations come out of it that a lot of what we are talking about here will be examined by SAFECOM & the Chiefs (just like in every other state) to ensure that the same mistakes/problems are not repeated. And the last I heard SA was looking at the NSW RFA system (which is live online) for storm/flood/tempest events. This would also free up the comcen/dispatch system. So yes there are solutions, including getting rid of the filtered states in the first place so we can have one system & use regions rather than stupid artificial state borders for "sectorising".
cheers

bajdas · « **Reply #41 on:** July 02, 2009, 01:32:50 PM »

crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.

Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.

If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it......

Zippy · « **Reply #42 on:** July 02, 2009, 01:36:38 PM »

Victoria ESTA comcen's are pretty much multiagency comcen's....

According to my research (when i once considered goin for a job in esta), When you get hired you can start out as a call taker for one of the agencies,then get trained in higher tasks or in another agencies call taking...

So an employee at a comcen, can be a Fire, Police, Ambulance Call Taker (Phone), and a Fire Dispatcher (Radio). They could be everything...and purely do a specific role according to rosters. Then there are the multitasking gun's that can answer whatever comes up on there screen....

"State Emergency Communications Centres (SECC) are staffed by a team of approximately 400 emergency calltakers and dispatchers who operate 24/7. The total number of calls to ESTA in 2007/2008 was over 1.8 million."

chook · « **Reply #43 on:** July 02, 2009, 01:49:14 PM »

Think they were advertising a few weeks ago Zippy - so why didn't you apply?

Zippy · « **Reply #44 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:04:01 PM »

too much to finish sorting out at my current job still, and well just plain too lazy to add a level of stress encountered when moving interstate.

sooo, twiddling my thumbs till something happens in SA.... $53 million is more possible

crashndash · « **Reply #45 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:10:05 PM »

Quote from: bajdas on July 02, 2009, 01:32:50 PM

crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.

Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.

If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it......

hahahahah Badjy.....I'm so far removed from that.....my desire is for a system that works....the current one is broke (yes, less broke than it was).... my concern is that one service owns the CRD process for Fire and Rescue by and large...and please dont tell me SES and CFS are equal partners in this process....cos they arent

If the system cant answer the phone when its bad....then its hardly worth defending it is it?

bajdas · « **Reply #46 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:17:19 PM »

Quote from: crashndash on July 02, 2009, 02:10:05 PM

Quote from: bajdas on July 02, 2009, 01:32:50 PM
crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.

Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.

If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it......

hahahahah Badjy.....I'm so far removed from that.....my desire is for a system that works....the current one is broke (yes, less broke than it was).... my concern is that one service owns the CRD process for Fire and Rescue by and large...and please dont tell me SES and CFS are equal partners in this process....cos they arent

If the system cant answer the phone when its bad....then its hardly worth defending it is it?

FULLY AGREE

bajdas · « **Reply #47 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:19:49 PM »

Quote from: Zippy on July 02, 2009, 02:04:01 PM

......
sooo, twiddling my thumbs till something happens in SA.... $53 million is more possible

Then start the process to join MFS has a recruit. At the moment that is the only way you will become part of Adelaide Fire comcen because of the UFU agreement with the old Minister.

Maybe it will change in the future, I dont know..

chook · « **Reply #48 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:28:33 PM »

Fair enough Zippy - sometimes I wonder whether moving was really worth it(trouble is I've signed on with the devil now so I'm stuck

) However new responsibilities will mean I will be spending more time in SA - for now! And no won't be renewing my membership of the SA emergency services

Yep its a big call & until the smoke clears (pardon the very poor pun), I would be keeping well away from the emergency services in Vic.
cheers

Darren · « **Reply #49 on:** July 02, 2009, 04:03:03 PM »

Why on earth would we want to staff for the 1 in 30 year fire, and the odd storm

Most times we have plenty of staff for the 70 or 80 calls we average. We have upgraded staffing levels twice since taking over CFS and SES.
Trust me, when I worked at CFS that was hardly a proper CRD centre, it was no better than having airsource and a radio in a brigade radio room. At least when we turn out an MFS response some sort of SOP is followed, the CFS respones vary so wildly, from 4 trucks for a house fire, to one truck, and we will get back to ya if its really something (it happened a few days ago...)
I think some of you are wanting this state to be more than it is, compared to Victoria and NSW we don't do anything, they would laugh at our call rates here.

As for it going private, hmmmm, good luck, maybe with a change of government, but with the clowns that are running the Liberal Party, can't see it happening any time soon !

Author Topic: Are we kidding ourselves? (Read 28658 times)

Darren

Darren

Darren