Author Topic: Not Happy? (Read 14680 times)

jaff · « **on:** June 18, 2009, 11:33:42 AM »

If your not happy with your lot in your brigade, group or region, then here is the place to vent your spleen! .......or is it?
What I would like to ask EVERYONE is have you followed the chain of command in your enquiries/request?
If your enquiry/request is denied, do you reassess as to why your request/enquiry didn't pan out as you would have liked, eg does it not fit in with the organisations big picture, or are you being unrealistic in your expectations?
If your expectations are not met, do you act like a petulant child and lash out at the organisation? or do you reassess your expectations and if they are still valid seek to progress them through the channels that have been set up for this!

The one TRUE strength of our organisation is the staff at regional levels, they get paid wages that in NO WAY reflect the dedication/service they give to the job, the reason most of them continue in their jobs is love for the service, not the pay or the excellent prospects for advancement, I would suggest if regional staff had their way you would have every wish and whim granted. The reality is, that cannot happen.
So if your request is denied, reassess the situation with the big picture being taken into consideration, revalidate your expectations, if they are still valid follow the procedures to the end, "talk" to the stakeholders, most of them are volunteers as well and only want what is best, if its possible!
Remember as most posters, post with an alias, it is done with annonymity and facts are in some cases are rubbery at best, but the damage that angry unvalidated posts to CFS staff (the people that give far more than their pay levels suggest they should, because of their love of the service) who suprise suprise look at this website, can be huge!

So be mindful of the harm unsubstanciated claims/posts can cause to people, that are for the most part doing all they can to help!

Thoughts?

crashndash · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:10:36 PM »

I'm so filtered off at the moment I can hardly type .....fancy putting a post like that, which is considerate, sensible, and accurate at the start of a thread that will no doubt contain the best of the mumblings from the shallow end of the gene pool....

Jaff...you should be ashamed of yourself....take 10 demerits from petty cash, and you are hereby sentenced to serve 30 days in Weymouth St as the Head Shed Coffee Boy.

chook · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:32:31 PM »

Nice one Jaff - a very considered statement! About the alias thing - I thought we agreed to not hide behind such devices some time ago.
And your closing statement is quite correct!
One thought though, what if it is payed staff - who are totally frustrated with the "system" actually winding up certain individuals to "vent their spleen" whether on here, in the media or to the government in a vain hope of forcing change? Now this is a hypothetical if you like, just seems like some of the CFS postings on here have a very "indepth" knowledge of things thats all.
I guess what I'm saying is if members (both vollies & payed staff) of the organisation think they are being ignored & their association isn't effective & the service is getting worse. Where do they go then? or do the just leave?
However I agree totally with the last line - care is needed in the future.
Anyway thanks again for an excellent thread

6739264 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:13:24 PM »

Ah Jaff...

Been working on your comedy routine have we?

Good for a laugh, especially all those bits and pieces about "If they could, they would give you the world"

The entire organisation is screwed. From Brigade level up, its a mess. Group and Region are filled with people running personal agendas, independent of "whats best" for the community. I have never seen an organisation so inbred and filled with self serving idiots in positions of "power".

Dot every 'I' cross every 'T', follow procedure to the letter, make everything fit into the "Organisations Big Picture" (That would be emergency management Fire, Rescue & Hazmat no?) and still have to push fecal matter up hill to get anywhere. It's a joy.

Some people are here for the love of the service and to serve there local community, others... well not so much - Just have a look at certain things that have occurred in the past in different sections of the service, without naming names... (STC, I'm looking at you!)

The CFSVA is the biggest crock since the dawn of time, why they exist, who knows?

So, for the people who read this website and get all sooky and upset that some people are rather disheartened with the service, and perhaps with the job that our fearless leaders are doing, rather than having a cry, why not reassess what you do at work, or rather what you DON'T do, take on board the criticism and actually make an effort? Sadly you get paid peanuts, and yes that is terrible, but why not just do the best you can do in the position you have? The same goes the whole way down the line to the poor white hats at the pointy end. If we all just tried to do our best, then surely the service would grow for the better? Why can't we all just get along? Why can't there be transparency in decision making? Didn't we all join the CFS for the same reason in the first place?

At the end of the day, aren't we here not for ourselves, but for the community in which we live?

Now thats all over, I'll go back to something else that worked on paper... Communism!

jaff · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:42:38 PM »

Numbers I always find it best to follow the dosage instructions on my meds.......I know for you that taking a weeks dosage at a time, may be expedient, but....

6739264 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:46:35 PM »

I think they forgot to prescribe the "Anti-Depressants" and just gave me "Realism" Tablets

chook · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:10:04 PM »

Just a question as pay has been raised several times. How much are payed staff on in rough figures? Because I'm on salary, work 60 plus hours a week minimum, no leave loading, no perks & get payed about $66k (including super). So are people under payed or are their expectations a bit high? And before anyone asked I work in OHS for a major company & depending on qualifications & area of responsiblity range between 60 & 85K (thats us OHS types). And we are "performanced managed" out of the business if we don't meet our targets, over spend, don't help increase profit or don't reduce costs! Or if someone higher up has to

So is it relly that bad being paid staff, & if it is why stay?
cheers

SA Firey · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:37:33 PM »

Ah numbers, some dont like to be told how it is but you have summed it up perfectly of course

jaff · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:27:32 AM »

Numbers you have a lot to say on this subject, but it lacks substance. It is a good spray, with a bit of witt thrown in, but where are the facts?
For an anonomous post, with no confirmation as to which service you claim to be in, it lacks credibility and remains a spray from a faceless poster!
If you are in the CFS and your post truely represents the way you feel about things, what have you done to try and rectify some of your complaints?

jaff · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:33:02 AM »

Quote from: SA Firey on June 18, 2009, 10:37:33 PM

Ah numbers, some dont like to be told how it is but you have summed it up perfectly of course

firey if you can email me your address, i'll get your daily fish allowance sent around!...........oh yeh beach ball balancing practice has moved back to 1700hrs

crashndash · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:13:36 AM »

lololol....who are you and what have you done with the real Jaff???

wombat34 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:47:01 AM »

Hey Jaff

bittenyakka · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2009, 12:45:35 PM »

i think this is the real jaff

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:13:02 PM »

I find it amazing how things like trucks losing BA sets for a few days as all the cylinders are out of date, how does that happen, there isn't that many BA sets.

I find it strange how CFS allows brigades to dwindle to the point of having no persons qualified above BFF 1...does anyone from staff care to explain how this is allowed to happen.

Brigades only seem to get help if they make a song and dance about it.

To be honest, I think after 15 years my dancing days are coming to an end...

chook · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:47:19 AM »

are you talking about accountability? If so thats what Numbers is always on about (even though he says stuff that pisses people off - he is quite right - well most of the time

).
There are numerous examples of similar events you descibe in both services. For example using tax payer funded equipment for private purposes, "borrowing" stuff just because its there etc.
I would like to know why have the costs blown out?
Where has the money gone?
Why are brigades/units allowed to not remain current in training?
Why is the current equipment levels suddenly below standard?
It is fine for individuals to go public with complaints, but the questions above are excellent ammunition to use against the volunteers (& staff).
Finally I find it strange that after years of complaining about the current communication system is poor & risks lives, that suddenly a fix is descibed as "trinkets" by your associaton president! Strange times indeed! I wonder if a political party might be doing some pot stirring behind the scenes. Darren I find it sad that after 15 years, you wonder if it is worth it - I got the same way prior to leaving the SA service

Darren · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:25:25 PM »

I think the reason things are suddenly falling below standard is that all of a sudden things bought under council funding are now due for replacement and they won't be. You still can't even get a PPV from the CFS, which everywhere else takes for granted.

SA Firey · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:53:52 PM »

No courses -No money to run them

Case in point CABA how many times have these been put on and cancelled at the last minute, on a Friday afternoon 3 hours before it was due to start, by as they tell us...low numbers...what a croc of scheiße

What about the new rules that says if you dont do your refresher while still within your expiry, and you expire because there were no refresher courses....guess what you will have to do the WHOLE COURSE all over again.

Feel sorry for the member from Goolwa who drove all the way to STC to do his refresher to then be told he can go home

mattb · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:08:54 PM »

Well it's now nearly 3 years since we have been able to get someone on a B.A. course so no need to worry about people doing re-freshers. We were able to increase our maximum numbers on our SFEC for B.A. but that doesn't help us at all when the service only trains to the minimum, and unfortunately the minimum is not enough for our brigade.

Yes we have discussed this with the Regional Commander and promises have been made but at this stage we still do not have any one on a B.A. course. When you are doing over 400 calls a year with many of them requiring B.A. it is certainly having an affect on our response capabilities.

We have offered to run our own courses (we have nearly enough B.A. instructors and course assistants within the Group) and even pay for the use of the STC, but that has so far been denied. So we are now looking at using external training providers and paying them.

I think the bottom line is that we need to run more courses.

SA Firey · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2009, 12:34:02 AM »

The system operated so much better when we had volunteer instructors, and I used to go to Brukunga every fortnight to assist with practicals....ah the good ol days

Funny even when you offer to pay for the training yourself as a brigade they knock you back...and we're doing them a favour

Alan J · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:29:09 AM »

G'day Jaff

Which "Big Picture" did you have in mind ?

Is it perhaps the Big Picture where CFS is so understaffed & underfunded that it
can't even afford to revisit the risk assessments of its Brigades' response
areas to check what changes have occurred in the last 20 or 30 years?

Is it perhaps the Big Picture where CFS is funded to replace only the items of
equipment which were decreed "standard stowage" under those out-of-date risk
assessments, no matter how essential the non-standard items are in the real world?

Is it the one where staff are grossly underpaid compared with their peers in
other parts of the public service or private industry, given their levels of
responsibility and work-loads? CFS pay grades are significantly less than the
identical spec jobs elsewhere in the PS - training officers are a good example.
Our comms people (when we had them) were another good example.

Is it the one where the considered appraisals of fire-fighters & officers of 20
& 30 years standing, both professionally and as volunteers, can be casually
brushed aside by a succession of politicians (on both sides) with no experience
or knowledge in the field of emergency management?

You are correct that the issues are political in origin.
The decisions on funding and resourcing are political.
The careers of a succession of CFS chief officers have been terminated by the
minister of their day when they tried to fix things properly (documented
publicly in "Tried by Fire").

cheers

Alan J · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:52:16 AM »

Quote from: chook on June 18, 2009, 03:10:04 PM

Just a question as pay has been raised several times. How much are payed staff on in rough figures? Because I'm on salary, work 60 plus hours a week minimum, no leave loading, no perks & get payed about $66k (including super). So are people under payed or are their expectations a bit high? And before anyone asked I work in OHS for a major company & depending on qualifications & area of responsiblity range between 60 & 85K (thats us OHS types). And we are "performanced managed" out of the business if we don't meet our targets, over spend, don't help increase profit or don't reduce costs! Or if someone higher up has to
So is it relly that bad being paid staff, & if it is why stay?
cheers

Chook, my good man...

1. You are getting ripped-off. You can get a better hourly rate in a call centre,
fitting tyres or asking "do you want fries with that?".

2. CFS staff tend to stay on because, unlike so many other jobs in our messed-up world,
what they do really 'makes a difference'. Like SES staff, many/most are vollies who are
getting the chance to serve the community more than they could as vollies. When
financial reality bites, they move to other parts of the PS or out altogether. By the
same token, lots of good people don't apply for CFS jobs because it is too much of a
pay cut for the responsibility carried.

Maybe you should be aiming to put your knowledge & experience into a paid SES or CFS
role ?...

cheers

chook · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:56:17 AM »

Thanks Alan - I was aware of your first point (even my HR manager has told me that

)Due to some recent internal changes within our division (news release Friday re: NFL Riverland & redundancies & my boss quitting on Tuesday), I will be approaching senior management for reclassification ASAP.
Yep done some research - RFS & CFA has some jobs which would use my particular talents, however in SA there doesn't seem to be any vacancies within the EM sector.
As for your second point - I was aware of those points (the question was aimed at the general audience as a counter point to the argument on pay levels).
And knowing paid staff & vollies who have applied for paid positions, I know the reality of how much they get stuffed about & what some of them are expected to do!
The post was to point out that just because the pay might not be right, it doesn't mean that working in the public sector is all bad - as you quite rightly pointed out.
Anyway I will keep my eye out for any vacancies (I might be seriously looking for a new job in the near future depending on the outcome of point one

) cheers

jaff · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:25:19 PM »

Quote from: Alan J on June 21, 2009, 03:29:09 AM

G'day Jaff

Which "Big Picture" did you have in mind ?

You are correct that the issues are political in origin.

Alan......... you got it, the staff at region do the best they can with what they have to play with, in most cases doing more than they reasonably should be expected too.
The "Big Picture" I refer too is wanting all volunteers too look at what is happening across the state as a whole, instead of just focusing on their own "issues" if we all did this, we could progress the service as a whole with a united front!
There are no doubt problems to be addressed, but if there was more dollars to be spent on training and volunteer infrastuctue I think a lot of our concerns would be allayed!
Perhaps if "Mike" spent some time in PPE instead of listening to his ministers then these problems would be addressed sooner than waiting for coronial findings!

edit fixed quotes

bittenyakka · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2009, 08:12:33 PM »

Jaff, I agree that volunteers need to look beyond their own little patch but I do want to know how united/ state wide some things need to be?
I have hears some great plans of standardising a whole heap of stuff in Pt Linclon but strongly disagree with that those ideas for my applications in R1.

Even though we all fight fires, the differences in both risks and attitudes about going about those risks changes all over the state. For example at a recent meeting it was mentioned that in the rural areas along the riverland 20 min for a truck to arrive was acceptable. It is still a response. But in the urban fringe it is viewed as highly unacceptable some brigade like to maintain <4 minute. A state wide plan doesn't work. We still need to recognise that there are differences that must be accommodated.

JC · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:25:46 PM »

Quote from: mattb on June 20, 2009, 06:08:54 PM

Well it's now nearly 3 years since we have been able to get someone on a B.A. course so no need to worry about people doing re-freshers. We were able to increase our maximum numbers on our SFEC for B.A. but that doesn't help us at all when the service only trains to the minimum, and unfortunately the minimum is not enough for our brigade.

Yes we have discussed this with the Regional Commander and promises have been made but at this stage we still do not have any one on a B.A. course. When you are doing over 400 calls a year with many of them requiring B.A. it is certainly having an affect on our response capabilities.

We have offered to run our own courses (we have nearly enough B.A. instructors and course assistants within the Group) and even pay for the use of the STC, but that has so far been denied. So we are now looking at using external training providers and paying them.

I think the bottom line is that we need to run more courses.

Hey Matty,

Just be careful with the use of external provider, not because of the quality of training but because CFS has a shocking record of recognising external training, even though it is done under the National Accredited Competencies. I am going through a battle to get 4-5 courses recognised at the moment.

Cheers JC