Author Topic: Are we kidding ourselves? (Read 28567 times)

Zippy · « **Reply #50 on:** July 02, 2009, 05:20:13 PM »

ah balled my eyes out when you mentioned Liberals and Privatisation in the same sentence

jaff · « **Reply #51 on:** July 02, 2009, 05:51:08 PM »

Quote from: Darren on July 02, 2009, 04:03:03 PM

Why on earth would we want to staff for the 1 in 30 year fire, and the odd storm Most times we have plenty of staff for the 70 or 80 calls we average.

Trust me

Darren, there is NO question AF CRD is for the most part brilliant for as you say the 70 - 80 calls a day scenario. My doubts are how we cope with the short sharp high impact incidents, it seems unless I am missing something that groups need to have a more formalised default system in place for this scenario!
As has been previously mentioned the Victorian coroner, may influence any future modelling.

Trust me , the cheque is in your mouth

chook · « **Reply #52 on:** July 02, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »

Ah now you may have nailed it Jaff! Storm/Flood events that are not occuring in Adelaide are not managed the same way as a normal day. Normally a Field HQ is setup (Renmark, Pinnaroo)etc. The tasks are handled by that HQ & the tasks are given out either by voice or radio (on an allocated TG) & yes AF does still pass on tasks but the local HQ deals them out (that would handle the brigades/units that can't attend e.g. default pages)as the HQ would know what resources it has & what is coming. The RFA system formalises this process even further, every task is documented & a "pink" handed to the responding crew. It has the task, address & other info on it - this helps to free's up the radio network.
Also this allows for multi agency crews to attend the task, with the right number of people & the right mix of skills & equipment. I understood Adelaide events can be managed the same way - once the HQ group becomes operational of course. Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet! This system works elsewhere as well, it ensures proper allocation of resources, proper prioritisation & enough relief crews to provide extended operations over days or weeks e.g QLD/NSW Flood/storm events. If you think about it similar to what crash was talking about. It is a pity that this system isn't used more often. cheers

crashndash · « **Reply #53 on:** July 02, 2009, 08:24:49 PM »

Quote from: chook on July 02, 2009, 06:12:32 PM

Ah now you may have nailed it Jaff! Storm/Flood events that are not occuring in Adelaide are not managed the same way as a normal day. Normally a Field HQ is setup (Renmark, Pinnaroo)etc. The tasks are handled by that HQ & the tasks are given out either by voice or radio (on an allocated TG) & yes AF does still pass on tasks but the local HQ deals them out (that would handle the brigades/units that can't attend e.g. default pages)as the HQ would know what resources it has & what is coming. The RFA system formalises this process even further, every task is documented & a "pink" handed to the responding crew. It has the task, address & other info on it - this helps to free's up the radio network.
Also this allows for multi agency crews to attend the task, with the right number of people & the right mix of skills & equipment. I understood Adelaide events can be managed the same way - once the HQ group becomes operational of course. Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet! This system works elsewhere as well, it ensures proper allocation of resources, proper prioritisation & enough relief crews to provide extended operations over days or weeks e.g QLD/NSW Flood/storm events. If you think about it similar to what crash was talking about. It is a pity that this system isn't used more often. cheers

errrr....isnt this the same system in different words that i mentioned earlier and u bagged me for?....sectorise the big stuff, handle it locally, when the flaps over, sent it back centrally

maybe i should have wrapped it in gladwrap and mounted it on a stop go stick

6739264 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 02, 2009, 09:08:37 PM »

Lets not get all wacky and let our minds drift to worst case scenario days...

Lets take a 'normal' 70-80 call day and make AF actually do the resource tracking job they're meant to do. None of this broadcasting SITREPS and urgent response upgrades into the ether, to random appliances or to some poor GO trying to run comms from his car. Let us actually be able to have a dedicated commcen to talk to, 24/7 (Be it AF/RHQ/Group Base/Station). Try using the old style system with poor old AF now and the old dear would fall flat on her face.

Its not the operators fault, but the implementation of the system. It sucks and is appalling to use even on the quietest of days.

Honest to god, people will die if it's not fixed - And it won't have to wait until the next blow up day.

chook · « **Reply #55 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:42:24 AM »

Not quite Crash - you also mentioned to set up regional comcens/cads etc (like the Americans do). But as far as sectorising command & control locally yep similar idea - in-fact it is already covered off in some of the training we already do & is already done (just no body makes a big song & dance about it). And it was how large operations were managed prior to the advent of personal PC & mobile phones.
So no you dont have to wrap anything in Glad wrap

You still exist numbers? Nice to hear from you again

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 03, 2009, 10:36:06 AM »

If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers

Zippy · « **Reply #57 on:** July 03, 2009, 11:53:59 AM »

Quote from: Robert-Robert34 on July 03, 2009, 10:36:06 AM

If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers

Wont Happen, they'll tweak the intergraph software to use CFSRES instead of @@ALERT and QD

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #58 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:42:03 PM »

Even so Zippy new pagers would be good it doesnt matter if they tweak the intergraph software so we get CFSRES instead of Alert

bajdas · « **Reply #59 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:49:59 PM »

Quote from: chook on July 02, 2009, 06:12:32 PM

....Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet!....

Chook, the NSW RFA system was used has a basis for the current SES SOC system. Started about two or three years ago. I believe the process is very similar.

For example, the SA SES Request for Assistance database produces the tasking form that can be facsimiled or emailed if required.

In the case of last Tuesday, instead of all SES local HQ's in Adelaide opening, the Regional (eg Central & North) and State Operations centres handled the resource tracking, sitreps, etc. Central Region and State operations centres are in the one room now. MFS and CFS liason officers were present during part of the day.

Then later in the day some Adelaide SES LHQ's opened to handled localised suburbs of damage. This kept more people & trucks on the road.

More formalised AIIMS structure is the future when training completed.

6739264 · « **Reply #60 on:** July 03, 2009, 02:41:48 PM »

Quote from: chook on July 03, 2009, 06:42:24 AM

You still exist numbers? Nice to hear from you again

Oh yes, still here... Just need to take a break from the asylum once in a while

Quote from: Zippy on July 03, 2009, 11:53:59 AM

Quote from: Robert-Robert34 on July 03, 2009, 10:36:06 AM
If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers

Wont Happen, they'll tweak the intergraph software to use CFSRES instead of @@ALERT and QD

New pagers are being trialled...

crashndash · « **Reply #61 on:** July 03, 2009, 02:56:55 PM »

so we've gotten down to the crux of all of the real world issues......the system is fine....but we need a pager that says one thing...not another....cool, I'll be able to sleep easy tonight then

Zippy · « **Reply #62 on:** July 03, 2009, 03:25:11 PM »

Quote

New pagers are being trialled... Wink

Cool, ill go get a cup of tea from Argentina by foot...

Wonder if they'll stop my boss asking me "is that some 80's galactica music on ya phone?"

chook · « **Reply #63 on:** July 03, 2009, 03:36:55 PM »

So you are using a RFA type system? - about time, as for AIIMS it is taking too long to implement. Mate I have heard about AIIMS type structures within SES for ages (remember I've only been gone less than 12 months) & the Request for assistance stuff may have been used by HQ but not at any of the events I was associated with (not in a formal way anyway). The trouble is everything is taking too long - for example I notice that a swift water rescue team has been developed - marvelous! We have it here to - difference is the course is available to all who have flood boats & are fit!
Eventhough I don't believe in throwing heaps of money & technology at every conceivable problem, there are some very good simple systems about the place that SESSA & SA in general could adopt (without having to reverse engineer/re-invent). It shouldn't be too hard to use an online system, that can generate RFA's locally & resource track, task track & monitor crews from any LHQ in the state. Afterall we were almost there already

(saw some pretty cool resource/ task tracking on one of the tasks wew were on a while ago!)
Anyway mate keep up the good work - see ya

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:02:22 PM »

Quote

New pagers are being trialled...

I am sooo jealous of the brigade or brigades who get to trail these new pagers

before the roll out of these new pagers begins

Quote

Wonder if they'll stop my boss asking me "is that some 80's galactica music on ya phone?"

It cant be any worse than my team leader at work picking on me for having Boys From The Bush as my ringtone

jaff · « **Reply #65 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:53:51 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on July 03, 2009, 02:41:48 PM

New pagers are being trialled...

Hope its nothing like the Horse trials they have in the parklands, 5 or 6 years they've been tried now, and they still havent found the barstards guilty!

jaff · « **Reply #66 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »

Quote from: Robert-Robert34 on July 03, 2009, 04:02:22 PM

I am sooo jealous of the brigade or brigades who get to trail these new pagers

Geezus Robert, thought you would want a new kite, before a new pager

chook · « **Reply #67 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:10:13 PM »

Hmmm - yes Numbers I see what you mean

Sooo are these new pagers going to have a tracking device?
Thought it may be handy for resource tracking etc

Or even better they could transmit subliminal messages - you know along the lines of"the government is great! everything is peachy!, all hail SAFECOM!!!".
Sorry Robert - just not sure how new pagers will fix the issues discussed in this thread, you are actually lucky to have the ones you do (or any at all!).
Anyhow - time to put the evil twin away & move on with some sensible stuff

(hope you get the new pagers soon Robert - without the Spook mods of course)
cheers have a good one

Zippy · « **Reply #68 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:26:55 PM »

If we compare the new GRN radios to a new Pager...will the pagers also be mobile phones?

crashndash · « **Reply #69 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:40:38 PM »

yes....but connected to Vodaphone so they only work within 5 kms of the GPO

rescue5271 · « **Reply #70 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:51:36 PM »

Hope the new pagers are not the same size as CFA one's, way too big and bulky

Alex · « **Reply #71 on:** July 03, 2009, 08:04:12 PM »

bring back the tone only pager!!!

Zippy · « **Reply #72 on:** July 03, 2009, 11:40:12 PM »

Quote from: crashndash on July 03, 2009, 06:40:38 PM

yes....but connected to Vodaphone so they only work within 5 kms of the GPO

Dont remind me of my phone's shitness....my nearest 2 local towers for home were down or faulty for about 2 weeks in May/June.

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #73 on:** July 04, 2009, 09:55:11 AM »

Ahhh the joys of being apart of Optus i get signal everywhere

Mike · « **Reply #74 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:56:56 AM »

Quote from: Robert-Robert34 on July 04, 2009, 09:55:11 AM

Ahhh the joys of being apart of Optus i get signal everywhere

They are refered to as DRoptus for a reason Robert....

Author Topic: Are we kidding ourselves? (Read 28567 times)

rescue5271