Sunday Mail

[crashndash]

Great idea CFS staff joining the UFU (if its true), however be very careful being a vollie & joining the UFU

you and Bill should start a garden supplies business Chook..... have to be employed AND a member of the MFS to join the UFU in SA.....volunteers not even close to getting a look anywhere, in fact they wouldnt even give u the street address to send in your application

[chook]

And you Crash would know that it is quite easy for a union to change its rules to allow for more members e.g. CFS Staff! Other unions are doing this as I speak to get into new turf (=more funds).
You actually quoted the qualifier -"if its true", which I would doubt, afterall everyone knows how well the union looks after the retained guys Why would CFS staff pay fees to an organisation, that isn't really that powerful in SA?
Finally Crash - not sure about the garden centre comment - but there would be no point as there is no water in SA to grow gardens anyway

[rescue5271]

Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???

[Bagyassfirey]

i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...

[jaff]

i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...

Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc

[crashndash]

Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???

Bill, I cant speak for the Union......but their membership rules are very clear, and are related to the role they have here in SA, not some distant function in another land (or time if you include Qld). Witness one of the CFS career staff who was a member of the union here.....now is not. I would suggest if it were possible for anyone it would have been him.

Chook, sure the rules can change, but from memory I reckon its a 80% figure needed to change the constitution. Hardly likely I would suggest......opening up the membership outside of the MFS is hardly going to improve the pay or benefits of the MFS career staff....which is after all why they vote yes for anything remember....

We'd have heaps of water if some dumb arses upstream werent using it all to grow cotton just to wipe our arses on 

[ltdan]

i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...

Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc

FYI
 
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS.  From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations. 

He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also.  Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.

He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.

[jaff]

Witness one of the CFS career staff who was a member of the union here.....now is not. I would suggest if it were possible for anyone it would have been him.

So it was a member of MFS that changed services too CFS?
Only one person comes immediately to mind...Forrest Gump!

[Bagyassfirey]

i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...

Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc

FYI
 
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS.  From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations. 

He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also.  Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.

He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.

WOW thats guna run in to some big $$$$$ if the decide all stations need toilets and what not.

[jaff]

FYI
 
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS. 

He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.

As I understand it this will be the services first chance too see the state of play across the state.....by a supposedly unbiased means.
Now the chances of substantive work commencing soon to lift ALL brigade stations to a minimum acceptable level well.....Ha  Ha  HAHAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA plop  roll roll roll

[CFS_Firey]

Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???

What would be the point of trying to join, (or continue membership with), a union that doesn't represent the organisation you work for?  

[rescue5271]

One can only hope that the AUDIT will be done well before we see rural stations built with only a shed for the applinace and nothing else.....You dont have to drive far from the CBD into the hill's to see stations that have problems or just take a sunday drive around a region and have a look.....

[Bagyassfirey]

One can only hope that the AUDIT will be done well before we see rural stations built with only a shed for the applinace and nothing else.....You dont have to drive far from the CBD into the hill's to see stations that have problems or just take a sunday drive around a region and have a look.....

Bit late there would be heaps n heaps of single bay sheds around the state and nothing else.

[Pipster]

i dont know that the lack of money for station/equipment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...

Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc

You're right Jaff, between Ashes & me, we have visited pretty much every station in the state (although we haven't been to Nepabunna yet, and I don't think we have stopped at Nundroo...and perhaps one or two others in Region 6...)

Anyway, the quality of stations varies greatly across the state - from stations you could quite comfortable live in for weeks at a time, (just bring a bed)  to stations that should be condemmend, and everything in between.

Many (most?) of the existing stations were built by the local community or by the local council, and hence there is no real standard... what you got depended a lot on how well off your council was, how well they supported the CFS, and how well the community supported the CFS.

But now, many need upgrading and / or  replacement.   

So, there needs to be some sort of standard as to what a station should have - in terms of the capital, and in terms of what equipment each station should have.

Because the CFS across the state is so diverse, a one size fits all approach cannot work - but there needs to be some standards.

So what should a basic station have?    Should every station have a meeting room? Comms room?  Toilets?  Kitchen? Kitchenette?

Should a station be supplied a TV & DVD player?  Tables & chairs? Fridge?

I think the answer to those will vary greatly across the state....but some sort of standard should exist.

There was a previous thread sometime ago, which asked what should a "standard" station have....some good ideas, some not so....perhaps we should have another thread along that line again....?

Pip

[Alan J]

SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS.  From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations.  

He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also.  Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.

He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.

As I understood it, this is the first real look SAFECOM has taken at what it
has inherited from councils. Intent is to work out 5 & 10 year budget plans
for maintenance & replacement. With just a little rot in the fascias & a leak
in the roof, ours is one of the better ones he'd seen to date. One urban brigade
has load-bearing brick walls which wobble when pushed.    Others have cracks
you can put your hand through.  That's just in "well-off" Region 1.
cheers

[chook]

Fair point Crash 80%? Thinking of total numbers of paid CFS staff the subs gained wouldn't be worth the hassle - unless you wanted some influence within You wipe your arse on cotton? In fact most of the cotton water has been bought by the feds!
It's about time SAFECOM did something constructive, I find it incredible that the it has taken this long to actually audit what they have!
The front line services should be focused on well front line stuff!
It is normal when an organisation "inherits" assets, the first thing they do is risk assess what they have. Its called Due Diligence, otherwise how do you know if you have just bought a lemon so to speak? Anyway hopefully they will notice the faulty toilet block at Berri (including the moving walls) & that one toilet for females is not suitable for a regional office, incident management facility or regional training facility
Hopefully it will all work out well for the services in SA - good luck!

[firegun]

I agree with Pip, Bagy and the rest of the comments,
Do the audit to see where we are. I am sure that some people will be surprised at how "bad" some stations are.
Most people however know this already.

My concern is however, when the figures are compiled and the dollars worked out to bring the stations up to a basic standard, one of 2 things is going to happen
.. Ops we haven't got the money to do this to x number of stations we need to lower the standard or
.. We have the money to do the work to X-y number, we can leave some out or heaven forbid amalgamate or wind some up.
In my group i would estimate that 15% would be ok
65% would need quiet a lot of work (ie BA areas toilets etc) and
 20% you wouldn't do any work to as the cost would be more than the station is worth (replace the lot)
cheers

[crashndash]

the state of stations is an interesting topic...and its maybe off topic here, as Pip suggested

My own Group....with probably one minor exception all Brigade premises would fit well within the guidelines as explained by Lt Dan....to my mind, thats a worthy legacy of the Group and the past Brigade members....as they have largely funded, built and managed their own facilities well. Yes its meant fundraising, yes its meant a bit of asking for a handout from the local community, but honestly I dont think thats a bad thing, and it is still possible in this day of ESL.

The question is SHOULD we have to.....and the answer is....unless we can come up with another round of a few $billion from our mate Kev just for CFS buildings...then it aint gonna happen in the short to medium term.

So we will be stuck with the status quo maybe with a few more shekels thrown in from FF Rann and his stodgy mate with the purse. But the answer is......where do we spend them? Do we ensure the standards for those Brigades that do 94% of the calls first?.....might be contensious, but thats what a business would do.


PS
Yes Chook.....what do u think makes up the Cottonelle Crapper Paper.... Papyrus??

[bajdas]

I heard that the audit is being done under OH&S emphasis to see if the buildings match the building & safety standard.

They tried a different way form capital funding of buildings with Treasury and did not succeed.

I could be wrong though...... 

[Alan J]

I find it incredible that the it has taken this long to actually audit what they have!
The front line services should be focused on well front line stuff!
It is normal when an organisation "inherits" assets, the first thing they do is risk assess what they have. Its called Due Diligence, otherwise how do you know if you have just bought a lemon so to speak? Anyway hopefully they will notice the faulty toilet block at Berri (including the moving walls) & that one toilet for females is not suitable for a regional office, incident management facility or regional training facility
Hopefully it will all work out well for the services in SA - good luck!

Ahhhh..... SAFECOM isn't front-line though, is it.
It's a back-of-house shared-services thing.

As for due diligence... state assumption of emergency services & their assets
was a political event. Since when did due diligence & politics walk hand-in-hand? 

cheers

[chook]

When I say front line I mean operational planning, training, operational management, & the conduct of operations.
SAFECOM should be administration, payroll, assets, combined OHS, Workers comp etc.
I get your point Alan, but the government is very good at arse covering & thats what Due diligence is - protecting your arse by knowing what you have that can bite you! In the broader sense of the words anyway (not just the stuff the bean counters go on about).
I thought that is what SAFECOM was formed for, to look after the combined administration functions of the 3 services - so that the 3 services could focus on the operational side! Even tenders, contracts, hire & fire(sacking) could be handled by them. They could even look after the RTO side of things instead of having 3 RTO's & the administration that goes with that! But at least they are starting to do something!
cheers

[jaff]

That may have been what SAFECOM was intended to do when it was formed, now it seem to be a bottomless money pit that has a magnetic attraction for bean counters and anal retentive types............. OH and David, the worlds answer to chronic insomnia!.......psst(I hear they recruited heavily from parking inspector stocks throughout Australia)

[chook]

Really!!! - filtered hell! And I so dislike bean counters Can't say anything about parking inspectors though I think I may have JUST "burned" any chance of getting a job with SAFECOM

[Baxter]

So SAFECOM has not done an audit on the all the thing they inherited until now. They should change their name to SAFECOMedy to describe their actions 

Now onto more serious matters I know we all have knocked our respective VA's at some time and that wonderful word has been bandited around "unity". The only people who may have some idea of how good or bad some of the stations may be is Pip and Ashes considering how many of them they have photographed. If I wanted to have an independent advice of how bad things really are; we are faced with two options. The first is hope like madly that the organization that we are lobbying stuffs up the report and gives you the ammo that you are after. The alternative is that you do the hard work yourselves and produce a report of your own.

You have the pictures from the Pip and Ashes we all have contacts in the other brigade who can aid us in self auditing our brigades. Don't laugh as school do it all the time they have downloadable forms. Anyway most Captains should be able to tell you how the regional audit went with your Brigade and what areas needed work. If you just so happen to have a keen as mustard Captain the BOMP maybe already prepared to aid in any SFEC debate that you may wish to have. Overall all the information is out there guys we only have to but it together to get that picture we are so desperately after. Our VA's will be able to assist maybe at organising and the collating the data then analysing it. So as group we have our own ammo not the sanitized version that we are so use to or the anecdotal stories we love to turn into facts.

[rescue5271]

Our regional AUDIT is done in June/JULY but from this year its being done in August of each year nothing like moving it a few months so that somethings get done before the audit.