Author Topic: Sunday Mail  (Read 68526 times)

Offline Pipster

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2009, 07:56:15 PM »

And not to turn up for training because its cold is well BS, afterall don't you get wet & cold out doing your job?


They come out for calls - in the cold & wet...but they don't see why they should suffer in the cold, when they don't have to.

And to have a mouldy & damp training room, as well as cold in not a pleasant place to be.... hence some choose not to come to winter training. 

After all, we are volunteers, and have a choice about what we do.

Pip

There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline tft

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2009, 08:16:05 PM »
If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station. Just like most of the CFS stations
Have a look at some of the new CFA stations getting built.

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2009, 08:26:20 PM »
If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station. Just like most of the CFS stations
Have a look at some of the new CFA stations getting built.

Nice example smaller volunteer Brigade station in CFA: http://www.ozfire.org/files/porepunkah_2008_small_968.jpg

Offline Pipster

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2009, 09:02:37 PM »
If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station.

You got it in one TFT.

Pip

PS  The rat bait around the place isn't too welcoming either  :-o



There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline Master of Disaster

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2009, 09:13:03 PM »
Chook um we are talking about a fire service that supposedly is funded by the emergency services levy, WE ARE NOT talking about other states here!!

Offline Alan J

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2009, 10:17:44 PM »
A few points if I may.

SFEC is supposed to be a statement of the absolute minimum crewing & equipping
required by a brigade to respond to the normal risks in its area.  Treating it
as a "maximum that we are required to pay for" is an abuse of its intent.

The snide remark about "small mansions" is ridiculous & uncalled for. What is
needed are a heap of basic sheds with basic ablutions facilities and suitable
enviroment to teach members the myriad stuff we are required to know.

This isn't about the Adelaide Hills. That's just a convenience for the 'Tiser.
And a willingness by Hills Groupies to speak up.  It's about whole-of-CFS
funding.  It is necessarily in the public arena because funding to the Service
is a political decision.  Only public shaming will prod this government into
allocating the funding for CFS to do its job fully. Including building or
replacing something like 180+ stations throughout wider SA which desperately
need it. Your station might be ok. There are plenty which are junk. How about
helping those brigades rather than knocking those who are trying to?

Further, there is absolutely NO "having a go" at staff in this.  Staff are
impacted even worse by lack of funds than brigades are.  There are not nearly
enough of them to do the work they are legally required to do. Across all
regions & functional areas.

Breach of code of conduct??  Bollocks!!
More like a case of the Emperor's new clothes!

cheers
Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

Offline SA Firey

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2009, 12:24:35 AM »
Images are copyright

Offline jaff

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2009, 01:52:34 AM »
So yep the situation isn't heaven but as we say around here "suck it up princess & get on with it!"




Hey Chookster, love your quote..........it will be back at ya, sooner than you know it :wink:
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2009, 09:32:32 AM »
The CFS's reply http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25532874-2682,00.html

What a load of .... in some respects.  1 Respect is: Yes theres too much in one area, and not enough in others.

Stirling i see is a very good position to have the roughly 4 or 5 appliances.  They are pretty much going to be the ones fighting the fire and delivering the water to the upper sturt crew's....if Belair national park goes up....all at the same time.

Give them 4 trucks that work...and in time theyll have enough crew to roll with a minimun of 2 or more at anytime.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 09:38:50 AM by Zippy »

Offline Bagyassfirey

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2009, 10:30:09 AM »
is it not simple....the trucks in question are brigade owned. (ie they raised the money and put it together) CFS says they will not replace it because its above the minimal requirements of the area. END OF STORY!!

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2009, 10:50:51 AM »
Then it goes to the question:  What are the minimum requirements of the area, and what determines the requirement of the area AND when was a review of the requirement of the area last performed, How often are reviews performed, and who performs them.

Offline chook

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2009, 10:56:20 AM »
Seems like Jaff you may be hinting at something that may be happening to a certain organisation in the near future?
If so the quote still stands - at the end of the day its all about service to the community & how that service is delivered (& by whom).
I understand that it may not be that nice meeting in dank, cold, training rooms or driving 10 year old appliances but you would have to admit the situation now is far better than 15 years ago.
Finally if what you are hinting at comes to pass, considering the current alleged problems with in the CFS - how will your organisation cope?
Remember they (government & business) usually "merge" things for "synergy" reasons (to save money) therefore I hope your not expecting a huge sudden increase in budget - me thinks you will be sorely disappointed :wink:
Master the other states have "funding arrangements" that still require the community to pay - just not as transparent as ESL - Therefore the comments are relevant - maybe that was a mistake on the part of the then SA government :wink:
Anyway Que Sera Sera  :-)
Ken
just another retard!

Offline big bronto

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2009, 11:22:52 AM »


Stirling i see is a very good position to have the roughly 4 or 5 appliances.  They are pretty much going to be the ones fighting the fire and delivering the water to the upper sturt crew's....if Belair national park goes up....all at the same time.

[/quote]

I think Stirling have bitten off more then they can chew on this one, they struggle to get 1 truck out the door let alone crew 5 trucks...They would be way above their standards with 5 trucks. Give them a pumper, 34p and 24 maybe the group tanker and pention their old trucks off. One more little truck will not do anything when "THE BIG ONE" hits and you will be getting help from a lot more groups and regions when the time arises.

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2009, 11:31:18 AM »
Using your argument big bronto,  Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option.  It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.

For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)

I want to see 2x CFA Light Pumper's Built for CFS trialing, placed at both Stirling & Aldgate. These light pumpers are the Canter style appliances with a Rosenbauer RH25 pump on the back....
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:33:23 AM by Zippy »

misterteddy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2009, 12:25:57 PM »
hmm...enough to warrant coming out of retirement for

Firstly, the article was a disappointment. Poorly written and lacking any justification for the public to engage in the debate, no compelling proof, no warranted examples - what happen to your argument about no $$$ for computers Rainer, and yet we're expected to complete fire reports, use them to page out to members, have to provide business and financial reports for Region and many use them for gaining real time weather info?....lost opportunities everywhere. I'm sorry if Kickatinalong Brigade cant sort out their door issue on their own....then i dont really want them on my fireground inside 5 minutes....let them cart water and sandwiches.

There wasnt a clear statement on what it was that the Gang of Four wanted....other than a couple of Brigade vehicles replaced, a door on a station, and some pagers....if thats the limit of the deficencies in the CFS....then we are in a great state.....and we al know thats not the case. Emotive argument never wins....facts, facts, facts......

Lost opportunities to present facts...% building growth in the Groups mentioned since the last review of SFEC, %percent of $$ spent per area covered, a $$$ value on the service provided against the cost of what they were wanting.

The argument here from the people concerned read as being against the CFS, and thats not a) fair, and b) correct. The material state of the Fleet statewide is far better than it was pre ESL. OVERALL the service is in a far better state than it was before.....BUT, that doesnt negate the issues that are being felt in the urban interface Groups that have real and compelling reasons for being concerned.

SFEC is a crap document, full of flaws, full of assumptions and questionable methodology. The resulting standards are certainly budget driven (ie its been engineered to fit within a certain budget). Predictably, CFS have rolled out the "we will only fund to SFEC position".....and this is what has to be addressed - reflect the flaws in this thinking, and compell and shame the Government into extra funding, but dont hammer the CFS they only play in the sandpit they are given....and as Alan mentions...they are affected more than most in the lack of $$$, but cant ever say it publiclly (until someone is approaching retirement and happy to hang their Kahunas out).

Overall....sadly, a missed opportunity that really smacks of whining a little....and lacks some hard unassailable facts to compel the public  to think about it. Of course, some of this is due to the writer and the poor structure of the article (geez it wouldnt have passed my Yr 12 English teachers standard let alone supposedly coming fom someone supposedly with a Degree in Journalism)

A timely (??) media release on Friday regarding an increase in spending for the CFS..... lolol...oh sooo cynical, coincidence?...i think not..lol. Pity it took a Coroners Inquest to get $60,000 worth of radios (even the CFS Media attribute it to this...amazing  :lol:)....what will it take to replce 180 sub standard Stations?

Finally....despite all my comments above, well done to the GOs concerned, it takes a great deal of gumption to put yourself in the firing line like you have, and at least 2 of you will be targetted personally as a result of the SLG push on holding dual rank. Make sure when u get the push...or at least any heat, that you make that public too......the Whistleblower Act is a good place to start and then the media - just get an editor on the case next time ...not a student journo

Offline bajdas

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2009, 12:34:40 PM »
Reply article http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25532874-2682,00.html

An extra facility to assist CFS Brigades http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25531810-2682,00.html

I cannot find the article on the residual money from the Goverment contingency fund being distributed.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline bajdas

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2009, 12:39:42 PM »
Chook um we are talking about a fire service that supposedly is funded by the emergency services levy, WE ARE NOT talking about other states here!!

Ummm he is talking about an emergency service in SA where action was taken against individuals for talking about issues.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2009, 01:14:49 PM »
$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades.  Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.

Or $373 per Volunteer out of the supposed 15,000 firefighters. soo, is this how much each volunteer is worth investing in?

wouldnt it be nice enough to increase Group/Brigade funding from $5.6 million to 7.5 million as a initial boost.

And increase Infrastructure Funding with another $5 million.

Investment in Infrastructure =  Stimulation people!  :evil:   Stimulate building and mechancial jobs + stimulate volunteer's morale!  How many Builders or Mechanics do you personally know that are CFS volunteers...

Time to rattle the Political voters feets again before the next election...

Zollo > Dud, Wright > heading towards Dud.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 01:23:24 PM by Zippy »

Offline Alan J

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2009, 01:26:52 PM »
Using your argument big bronto,  Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option.  It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.

For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)



Always entertaining how some forum members can't help aimimng at just one or two brigades when there is a whole-of-Service issue under discussion.

Mister Teddy is right.  The story lacked the punch it should have had.
Not through lack of facts, nor lack of presentation of facts, but because news
media basically rely on generating emotive responses in readers to sell their advertising space.  The reporter *may* have faithfully recorded & written the facts.
only to have them discarded onto the junior sub-editor's assistant's waste bin...

A shame really.  Will need to be a united push by CFS members to shame this
government into properly funding and resourcing the Service.  Which won't
happen while some clowns keep sniping at individual brigades instead of
trying to improve their Service.

regards
Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

Offline tft

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2009, 01:30:26 PM »
On the money about the story Mister Teddy
I would have liked the story to have more information eg The crappy fire stations, not just one station. Not much impact when you only talk about a few problems.

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2009, 01:32:24 PM »
Using your argument big bronto,  Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option.  It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.

For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)



Always entertaining how some forum members can't help aimimng at just one or two brigades when there is a whole-of-Service issue under discussion.

Mister Teddy is right.  The story lacked the punch it should have had.
Not through lack of facts, nor lack of presentation of facts, but because news
media basically rely on generating emotive responses in readers to sell their advertising space.  The reporter *may* have faithfully recorded & written the facts.
only to have them discarded onto the junior sub-editor's assistant's waste bin...

A shame really.  Will need to be a united push by CFS members to shame this
government into properly funding and resourcing the Service.  Which won't
happen while some clowns keep sniping at individual brigades instead of
trying to improve their Service.

regards

Only trying to bring a small example into the SFEC discussion, Standards of Fire cover...is it a good standard to see a truck snail up hill?  I dont live in that area..but i travel through it regularly. its an area where the CFS does need it invest its time and thoughts into.   Some area's of the state are near-perfectly covered...while its inconsistency that brings the other area's into sub-standard's.  The "Big-4" Region 1 Group's have the largest populations outside of the metropolitan area in this state to deal with in a Urban/Rural not Rural/Urban environment...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 01:34:01 PM by Zippy »

misterteddy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2009, 01:51:40 PM »
$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades.  Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.

this is the sort of stuff that gets a message to people....

Don't forget, $5.6 million for the entire CFS firefighting force of 15,000....Upwards of $2million for one MFS station, providing 4 people to an incident. Its (absolutely) not about getting the MFS cheaper stations .....just a recognition that CFS funding is inadequate, and a committment to improve it

Spread the word....CFSVA, where are you...lets make it happen

misterteddy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2009, 02:28:11 PM »
a 2 minute search of Government media releases shows....

$8million to upgrade two railway stations(make prettier, not provide new ones mind you)

If the $2billion planned for the Rail Network upgrade over 10 years was made over 11 years, or was $1.95billion.....the operating budget for CFS Brigades could double

Spread the word.....find the facts....beat the Government at their own game

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2009, 02:30:53 PM »
Right now is the time for the Steam Train to put more wood in the fire... this better not derail like 98% of all other attempts.

This is like the Battle of Telstra..Aim: make a customer orientated business model...Likeihood: Never.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 02:40:13 PM by Zippy »

Offline Zippy

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Re: Sunday Mail
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2009, 02:43:14 PM »
quote annual report for 2007-2008

Quote
2007-08 Income - $62.1 million

Contributions from the Community Emergency Services Fund - $59.2 (95%)

CFS is primarily funded from the Community Emergency
Services Fund, which was established by the Emergency
Services Funding Act 1998. In 2007-08, the fund provided
$59.2 million to CFS.

Commonwealth Revenues - $1.3 million (2%)
The Commonwealth contributes to the cost of aerial fire
fighting through the National Aerial Firefighting Centre as
well as providing funding for service provision and
projects.

Revenues from fees and charges - $0.4 million (1%)
CFS received $0.4 million during the year for fees and
charges for services, relating primarily to training and
development assessments.

Other income - $1.2 million (2%)
Other income for 2007-08 includes increases in funds held by CFS Groups and Brigades from fundraising
activities and donations, interest, net proceeds from disposal of assets and other recoveries.


How much Spent??  $59 Million.   $3.1 Million is where?

-----------------

Biggest point to raise out of this...$1.2 million was raised by the volunteers.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 02:56:40 PM by Zippy »