Author Topic: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS  (Read 23444 times)

Offline big bronto

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CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« on: April 26, 2009, 11:14:51 PM »
Hi crew,

I have heard that a regional commander is trying to stop all CFS staff being officers in their volunteer brigades??

I can understand maybe operational regional staff not being officers in the brigades that are in their region but staff officers and the like being cut from this they will loose such a lot of quality experience from brigades. I thought the CFS was short of volunteers and this is not a wise move, i believe if this gets passed then this will cause brigades more harm then good.

Offline Baxter

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 11:51:17 PM »
I was under the impression that this was done a few years back so that there was no confusion in the chain of command. I think that when the region is at an operational level these staff members will not be available to their brigades.

Besides the operational aspects there is the perceived aspect that a conflict of inter3est can occur in between brigades and regions
keep it simple for sanity skes please

Offline 6739264

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2009, 01:13:23 AM »
As per the '05 SACFS Regulations:

Division 2:

(6) A person is not eligible to be nominated for election to an officer rank if the person—

     (a) would, if elected, hold the rank and the rank of group officer or deputy group
         officer at the same time; or
     (b) would, if elected, hold the rank and a command or operational rank in another
         recognised emergency service at the same time; or
     (c) has been disqualified from holding the rank by the Chief Officer.

So although it doesn't specifically address Regional positions... it does make for interesting reading.

So much for all you Officers in SAPol and SAMFS! ;)
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

rescue5271

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2009, 06:59:40 AM »
The staff that work in region 5 who where brigade officers with the Naracoorte brigade had to give up their volunteer rank when they became staff which is a good thing as you would never see them at training,call outs and so on due to their work. Its a shame that CFS have not followed this into regions but i hear all that is about to change as a RC who holds a brigade officer position is taking CFS to task over it.. MY view is the RC needs to pull his head in and deal with the rank that he holds which is higher than captain and much higher than a group officer.. Nice to see at long last something will be done and it will also give members the chance to step up to those positions...

BRING IT ON.........

Darren

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2009, 08:01:42 AM »
I think it needs to depend on what they do in the CFS, I can't see how for example someone who works in say the comms area or mapping needs to drop their volly rank, what difference does that make to anyone, I think it should be for operational ranks not staff officers, staff officers have no operation role anyway. If they introduced it for all services then my brigade would lose 4 officers over night ! Not to mention about 45 years of experience.

misterteddy

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 08:13:08 AM »
just as well there arent any important issues for this erstwhile RC to be worried about in his Region. Lets not be too prescious, which Region is it?

at 2am when the pager goes....who cares who responds, so long as they are trained, and make themselves available. In fact it would be great if a few more staff (especially from Weymouth St) made themselves available for callouts with their local Brigade, they must see the real issues then and we might get some practical solutions

Only the CFS could continue to worry about the minutia in the face of far bigger issues. Its a Brigade decision, knowing all the problems that it involves (in terms of availability).... leave it to them to decide and move on....quickly.

Offline joff

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 08:44:02 AM »
I heard it was region one commander....

Do they not have more pressing issues like lack of volunteers, lack of training and brigades not turning out anymore, would this not be more important then  fixing their own little grievance with staff members...

Offline jaff

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 08:51:34 AM »
I heard it was region one commander....

Do they not have more pressing issues like lack of volunteers, lack of training and brigades not turning out anymore, would this not be more important then  fixing their own little grievance with staff members...


You heard wrong!........or are you taking the piiss
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Offline bajdas

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2009, 11:10:52 AM »
Why do they need to hold Brigade officer status to attend the one off incident ? They can still be volunteers and be a resource to the incident if required.

If they are a Brigade/Unit Officer & part of the management group of the Brigade/Unit. How can they argue properly for your better truck, equipment, funding, training, etc that your volunteers need in the Brigade, when they are arguing with the person who could affect their employment (now or in the future) ?

Personally I believe all paid staff should drop volunteer rank. They can be a local resource to the incident team and brigade with speciality expertise (like any other builder, plumber, farmer, electrician, etc).

The reason I say all paid staff, is that at a major incident many of the 'non operational' staff are used (eg VSO cars provide crew transport at a major inicdent, secretaries answer telephones, etc).

So then your Brigade/Unit Officer is not available to the Brigade, so you are missing part of the Brigade structure & a important resource at a major incident.

You are then trusting your non-officer volunteers to manage the Brigade at the incident. If you trust the volunteer that much at the incident to be the officer, then trust them to be the officer every day.

** My personal opinion only **
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

pumprescue

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 11:34:42 AM »
How for exapmle is someone working at the airdesk who is essentially a shift worker affecting the operations of CFS by being a volly rank holder. What if they extend this to the MFS staff as well, you would be surprised how many people this affects. It could throw some groups and brigades into chaos. I guess we can just drop ranks and just run with the senior person in charge.

I am starting to wonder why I bother with the CFS anymore, just seems to be one lot of BS after another and they never focus on the simple task of getting bottoms on seats so trucks get out to calls.

Offline bajdas

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2009, 11:39:58 AM »
How for exapmle is someone working at the airdesk who is essentially a shift worker affecting the operations of CFS by being a volly rank holder. What if they extend this to the MFS staff as well, you would be surprised how many people this affects. It could throw some groups and brigades into chaos....

Fair point, hopefully active mentoring & succession planning of brigade officer ranks is occuring to fill the gaps.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline wombat34

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2009, 11:53:27 AM »
I know of at least 4 CFS Staff Officers who have been given operational duties....and no one has asked me to hand in my yellow helmet yet. :?
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Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2009, 01:56:42 PM »
A Regional Commander destroying his own service! ..


-Operational Rank holders at Region+ level, fine. - Staff Officers whom hold no operational rank, leave them be.

rescue5271

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 08:21:10 PM »
Ok if this is coming in why not take it one more step and make it that MFS members can not hold rank in the CFS......

misterteddy

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 11:33:02 PM »
or people who were Scouts or Guides...or maybe those born on a day with a Y in it....

surely we can move on from this crap?

Region Commander reading this.......dont be a doofus, if u have enough spare time to worry about this crap please send me an email and i'll send you a list of tasks to complete before next fire season that will acually mean something

Offline Alex

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2009, 08:31:36 AM »
Ok if this is coming in why not take it one more step and make it that MFS members can not hold rank in the CFS......
As per the '05 SACFS Regulations:

Division 2:

(6) A person is not eligible to be nominated for election to an officer rank if the person—

     (a) would, if elected, hold the rank and the rank of group officer or deputy group
         officer at the same time; or
     (b) would, if elected, hold the rank and a command or operational rank in another
         recognised emergency service at the same time; or
     (c) has been disqualified from holding the rank by the Chief Officer.

See above Bill.

Not so sure why we would want to enforce this, as others have stated we would lose probly a couple of hundred officers around the place from these positions. A wealth of experience and knowledge.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:37:56 AM by Alex »

Darren

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2009, 10:04:20 AM »
It was thrown out of SLG, so for now, nothing will happen.

misterteddy

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2009, 10:08:56 AM »
Ok if this is coming in why not take it one more step and make it that MFS members can not hold rank in the CFS......
As per the '05 SACFS Regulations:

Division 2:

(6) A person is not eligible to be nominated for election to an officer rank if the person—

     (a) would, if elected, hold the rank and the rank of group officer or deputy group
         officer at the same time; or
     (b) would, if elected, hold the rank and a command or operational rank in another
         recognised emergency service at the same time; or
     (c) has been disqualified from holding the rank by the Chief Officer.

See above Bill.

Not so sure why we would want to enforce this, as others have stated we would lose probly a couple of hundred officers around the place from these positions. A wealth of experience and knowledge.

have thought a bit more about this.... and i think I've narrowed it down in my own mind where this might be ocurring (also fits in with a couple other interesting bits coming out of the same head-shed).

Maybe enforcing this is a way of silencing the internal critics, there have been a few staff that have been a bit vocal on the "issues" from within their region (in a round about way)....the old divide and conquer maybe.

As for the rule Numbers has mentioned.....wonder why CFS has never chosen to raise it, and therefore why they had it reinstituted in the new rules. After all, they are well aware who is who in the other zoos. Be interesting to see that enforced, as others have said, theres a bunch of experience that then isnt available to us anymore as Incident Controllers etc. Mind you, if it's going to be enforced, a recent post in another thread could well be the catalyst.

Offline K55

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2009, 10:27:15 AM »
The only difference between SO's & RO's (besides a few nit picky things) is that SO's work from HQ/STC. I know a few SO's who's work balance is 80% Ops & Training/20% Admin...

Offline Darius

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2009, 10:36:35 AM »
Mind you, if it's going to be enforced, a recent post in another thread could well be the catalyst.

:) 
except attempting to do that would appear to be being vindictive (cos that's what it would be) and not go down too well PR-wise. 
I like to think the CO has far more sense than that.

Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2009, 07:03:13 PM »
The only difference between SO's & RO's (besides a few nit picky things) is that SO's work from HQ/STC. I know a few SO's who's work balance is 80% Ops & Training/20% Admin...

As already said, the difference (really) is one group are operational, the other are not.

Either way, as Darren mentioned, nothing happend, it was thrown out, so we can all continue on our merry ways.. :)

rescue5271

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 07:31:52 PM »
Well from what has been said it has not been throwen out so i guess watch this space and see what goes on next.......

Offline RES3CUE

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »
.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 12:51:33 PM by RES3CUE »

Offline RES3CUE

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2009, 07:39:56 PM »
.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 12:51:58 PM by RES3CUE »

Offline Zippy

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Re: CFS STAFF BEING VOLUNTEER OFFICERS
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2009, 07:45:27 PM »
Why make them exempt from officer positions when they can be very good at running jobs that only last 3 hours...at 3 am    Example:  Fully involved House Fire.

Again, the focus is on, what the paid staff get involved in, funnily enough: Rural Incidents.

There's still plenty of officers around to run those good old dad's army jobs....