Time for 3 Fire services

[big bronto]

Reading the latest volunteer mag i find this interesting and the reason urban brigades cannot get anywhere in the CFS, time for 3 fire services MFS, CFS URBAN, CFS RURAL.

i quote "however, feedback from volunteers has indicated that some feel our vehicle are overly complex and carry stowage they will never use. other have commented that our vehicles have become overly "urban" centric...

When only 5% of CFS are really urban brigades with NO support and all the rural guys making these comments and being involved in vehicle committees how are we supposed to move forward. Fine if they think these 34P's are too urban then every urban brigade gets them and send the barn carts out to the sticks.

[Zippy]

i agree BUT...the rural guys need to learn how that over time, extra skills are required as Risks change.

Change Management its called

34P's are in no way Too Urban...the fact they have:   A Lot of water,  A lot of resources,  A Lot of hose, A Lot of everything.   Is exactly what isolated brigades need.

When youve got gazzilion brigades 10mins away in Region 1. The "Everything in One" isnt required.  Specialist resources are the way to go.   but remembering that the other regions also need specialist resources when the odd Big one occurs.

Three Fire brigades will be the wrong way to go.

[fridgemagnet]

Change Management its called

Hang on there Zippy don't paint all rural / isolated Brigades as something as dinosaurs that still do it the old way and don't adapt to change. Some of us out here in the sticks thrive on changing and improving things for the Brigade and the community so that we can provide the best possible service to the community that we serve.

Three Fire brigades will be the wrong way to go.

Spot on no need for three services then again the Volunteer is still sitting next to me waiting for me to read when I get boared here at work so I really can't comment till I read the article in question.

Can't wait for a 34P to turn up on our  Brigade door step BTW we still do have the old towns hook up trailer set as a back up as some people love their old quaint ideas.

[Zippy]

yeah i know....its a mixed world out there!  or a Bag of lollies

yeah, a 34P is an improvement over any 24 or 34...

[Pixie]

Vote NO: 3 Fire brigades
Vote YES: Euan, and the rest of the community realising that CFS CAN and DO respond to more than just Rural fires.

I would really love to see some high capacity (5000+ L) rural fire trucks that carry the bare minimum, ie. water, pump, hose, crew though. And I would like to see CFS step away from the concept that all fire trucks have to be either MR or LR.

But on the other hand, I also like the idea of rural brigades having multiple NPWS style 14 appliances ie. 3 per brigade and some more BWC's (probably most cost effective option)...this is rather than having X4P appliance and X4 appliance... ie. have X4P appliance and 3 14 appliances, with multiple tankers within a group. 

[bittenyakka]

WE can't have 3 fire brigades as the urban CFS bit would be so small they would get completely neglected.

Being innovative with our trucks is a smart idea tho

[boredmatrix]

where did URBAN CFS come from? 

If it's that urban - why haven't MFS taken it over?

oh wait....free labour..that would be why....

[6739264]

Well, we currently have only one fire service, so perhaps it would be better to see working groups within that framework work with the mindset of "Urban Fulltime, Urban Volunteer, Fulltime Rural, Volunteer Rural". As it stands within the CFS, it stinks. The best 'Urban' truck we can make is a spec from another State, not bothering with the "Rescue" variants of the truck - the CFS and the rural boys that sit on the Appliance committees need to have their heads read.

Honestly, I would love to know where these responses came from and what they mean by "overly "urban" centric". What? They carry CABA? and a ceiling hook? and 'pumpers' have no crew deck?! Because thats about the only vaguely urban thing around these days. 34P's wouldn't know what 'a lot of hose' or Urban stowage looked like. The same can essentially be said about Pumpers.

How complicated are things really? Pumps can be intimidating, but they are are simple. The equipment? Apart from RCR and some Hazmat stuff its all very basic... Were the volunteers that did the survey smoking?

WE can't have 3 fire brigades as the urban CFS bit would be so small they would get completely neglected.

Look at SAMFS. They are one of the smallest paid services in the country, but they have great gear, great trucks and are pushing the envelope in places. They can afford to do this when they are only fitting out 16 station. If the 'Urban CFS' only has a handful of stations it may make it easier to move forward. Designing a truck for ONLY 10 brigades that has a short list of specific uses is far easier than developing a truck for the entire state with 1000's of uses.

where did URBAN CFS come from? 

If it's that urban - why haven't MFS taken it over?

oh wait....free labour..that would be why....

I'd say 'Urban CFS' comes around when a Brigade is turning out to more 'Urban' incidents than 'Rural'.
And yeah, its free labour. Do you really think the state could afford a paid station in every location that warrants it?

[fridgemagnet]

To be fair the one size fits all would surely have to be sinking back into the abyss that it came from and derves to go.

I don't see the problem in having a peri-urban service maybe as a rural service we can get rid of some of the quaint ideas that we have for rural appliance like a 14 at Glendambo yes it might resolve a crewing problems but what happens when it it out of water in 3 minutes at a car fire. Yes 14's are good in the hilly terrain but as Zippy described as the 34's being sent to the more remote areas and some configuration for areas where brigades are closer to each other.

[firegun]

i agree we don't need 3 fire services, what we do need however is changes to the concept that every brigade fits in to 3 groups ie Urban or Urban/rural or Rural and the equipment provided for these is the same for all.
for instance not all Urban brigades would need a pumper like say Millicent has, and not all Rural brigades would need the "standard" 34 currently provided. The resoursing of all brigades needs to be done on a brigade by brigade basis.
What we cannot do however is have a multitude of options to choose from as this would have us go back to pre 1983 when we had any and every type of units we could get.
there is several good options around that the I&L section is aware of/ trailing and investigating. They have put out a discussion paper on this subject.

eg a 6 wheel QAV type vehicle (based on the Tasmanian units)is being trailed in i think the Pinnaroo area

the CFA has developed a light tanker with many new features such as remote monitors and a high pressure mop up line.

The provision of group tankers (i know some regions/ groups have had tankers for some time but it is only in the past year or so my region has been provided with some. (don't quote me but i think the count is as of now 5 CFS owned tankers for the region))

the provision of new and improved equipment is only the first part. The hardest part is to convince some people that you don't need a whole lot of equipment and water to fight 95% of the fires we have, you have to fight them smarter.
cheers

[Zippy]

the topic of how much water a brigade has available to them is certainly an intersting one.

if youve got no mains water readily accessible.  Larger tanks should be priority.

[misterteddy]

for lots of Brigades....a 10,000 litre tanka with a 9hp Onga pump would be fine - and cheaper

CFS will never be truly innovative in appliance design while we build so few, are required to tender the way we do, and have the people in charge (of design and delivery) we do. The CFA concept build of the Light Tanker is an excellent idea (go to Youtube and search for CFA Light Tanker Concept), theres a few things that could be better, but overall, you guys who like to stay on the pump deck and fight grass fires, would be more than happy with this...and u can run it with 2 people.....THATS innovative design - perfect?...nope....but still filtered good - Nike is right....lets just get on and do it.

3 Services?...bah....stoopid Safecom media types have no idea how they dumb down the CFS and its operations sometimes.....its bad enough when they do it in the public arena (please dont keep referring to me as a Volunteer all the time, I sound like a parent at a swimming carnival....just refer to us as firefighters - judge me on the service....not my payslip) but when u do it to us...then u just show ur ignorance. Pity our senior staff cant grasp this and kick it into touch before it even gets a guernsey

[6739264]

for lots of Brigades....a 10,000 litre tanka with a 9hp Onga pump would be fine - and cheaper

CFS will never be truly innovative in appliance design while we build so few, are required to tender the way we do, and have the people in charge (of design and delivery) we do. The CFA concept build of the Light Tanker is an excellent idea (go to Youtube and search for CFA Light Tanker Concept), theres a few things that could be better, but overall, you guys who like to stay on the pump deck and fight grass fires, would be more than happy with this...and u can run it with 2 people.....THATS innovative design - perfect?...nope....but still filtered good - Nike is right....lets just get on and do it.

3 Services?...bah....stoopid Safecom media types have no idea how they dumb down the CFS and its operations sometimes.....its bad enough when they do it in the public arena (please dont keep referring to me as a Volunteer all the time, I sound like a parent at a swimming carnival....just refer to us as firefighters - judge me on the service....not my payslip) but when u do it to us...then u just show ur ignorance. Pity our senior staff cant grasp this and kick it into touch before it even gets a guernsey

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with the rural appliances that the CFS builds. They've got water, equipment, and they are generally sized correctly for their area. Having the LR/14/24/34/Tanker allows plenty of room to fit an appliance to an area. The system falls down when rather than innovate, CFS try to cram more gear on a truck not designed for it, whats worse is they start allocating stowage to fit the truck, rather than designing a truck to fit the stowage.

Sadly mate, we in the CFS ARE volunteers. Personally I think it's really good that the distinction is made, when we are already fighting public perception that we are 24/7 staffed fulltime paid crews. Its good for recruitment, allowing the public to realise that their local brigades are 'only' volunteers and that they can join too. Theres nothing wrong with being a volunteer, maybe you should pride yourself on the service you are providing to the community? Don't see the term volunteer as slanderous.

[Zippy]

for real Urban Rural pumper/tankers....Search  PLENTY Pumper Tanker on Ozfire.    I quite like it

The pump is nicely finished off with no Plumbing in sight

[misterteddy]

Sadly mate, we in the CFS ARE volunteers. Personally I think it's really good that the distinction is made, when we are already fighting public perception that we are 24/7 staffed fulltime paid crews. Its good for recruitment, allowing the public to realise that their local brigades are 'only' volunteers and that they can join too. Theres nothing wrong with being a volunteer, maybe you should pride yourself on the service you are providing to the community? Don't see the term volunteer as slanderous.

Numbers I hear that argument a lot. Firstly, I have absolutely no issues whatsoever being someone who does not get paid for what I do. I don't volunteer, i live in the Hills, it's my OBLIGATION. I look at it a different way. When i hear of a parent volunteering to help with reading in a school class, i don't have too many expectations, they will work within a system, someone who is paid will oversee them and do what they can, I'm thankful for their contribution and their time, but thats about it. If I hear of a student support officer in the class, I have a different lot of expectations - like they need to perform. If they need support to do that....then the education system has to provide it, and if it doesnt, the union brings it to the publics attention so we can decide if it is an issue for us at the ballot box.  I figure that we do ourselves a real disservice by continually playing the volunteer card.....the public just dont expect anything much from us, in their words "cos they are just volunteers". This is backed up with lots of market research.

I reckon the Country Fire Service should aim at selling itself AS a fire service, not as a volunteer organisation - then, you might start to have some more bargaining power when it comes to the  allocation of resources

[Zippy]

Hear Hear.

[6739264]

Numbers I hear that argument a lot. Firstly, I have absolutely no issues whatsoever being someone who does not get paid for what I do. I don't volunteer, i live in the Hills, it's my OBLIGATION.

Don't get me wrong, I joined as I felt I was obliged to as well.

I look at it a different way. When i hear of a parent volunteering to help with reading in a school class, i don't have too many expectations, they will work within a system, someone who is paid will oversee them and do what they can, I'm thankful for their contribution and their time, but thats about it.

Thats basically what the CFS is though, far too many people in the CFS hide behind the fact that they are Volunteering and are making such a HUGE effort to their community because THEY volunteer THEIR time, and that thus makes them exempt from any form of scrutiny. I don't agree with this at all, and rather hate the idea.

I figure that we do ourselves a real disservice by continually playing the volunteer card.....the public just don't expect anything much from us, in their words "cos they are just volunteers". This is backed up with lots of market research.

Part of the problem is that, like above, that "just volunteers" attitude is one that we hold and one that we portray to the public with our mishmash of uniforms, trucks, livery, emblems. We look and act like Dads Army - why should the public see something different?

I reckon the Country Fire Service should aim at selling itself AS a fire service, not as a volunteer organisation - then, you might start to have some more bargaining power when it comes to the  allocation of resources

Before the CFS can sell itself as a Fire Service, as it well should, the CFS needs to take itself seriously as a Fire Service. There needs to be pride at a local Brigade level in both the Brigade, but also the Service as a whole. Currently neither the CFS nor the CFSVA does anything at all to foster this, and at times you could almost suggest they actively discourage it by the way they treat their members.

Perhaps we need to be referred to as CFS Firefighters, and leave the "CFS = Volunteers = We need YOU" to the Media dept to strongly make the point and outline what we do in a different campaign.

[chook]

Have to agree with you Numbers on every point (& not just with the CFS).
I am surprised that any thoughts of a "third" fire service even made it to print (now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool

[misterteddy]

Before the CFS can sell itself as a Fire Service, as it well should, the CFS needs to take itself seriously as a Fire Service. There needs to be pride at a local Brigade level in both the Brigade, but also the Service as a whole.

absolutely agree with you

Perhaps we need to be referred to as CFS Firefighters, and leave the "CFS = Volunteers = We need YOU" to the Media dept to strongly make the point and outline what we do in a different campaign.

I'm happy with this too, bring it on

[24pumper]

(now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool

4 rescue services, What happened to the 5th??

24p

[big bronto]

Well 3 fire services was meant to be a joke to point out there are 3 operating at the moment, what it should be is one fire service with 3 categories, fulltime urban, volunteer urban, volunteer rural.

[Zippy]

the volunteer rural would be wayyy to much like the QLD RFS...

[6739264]

(now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool

4 rescue services, What happened to the 5th??

24p

I think he's counting the VRA as dead already...

Well 3 fire services was meant to be a joke to point out there are 3 operating at the moment, what it should be is one fire service with 3 categories, fulltime urban, volunteer urban, volunteer rural.

Its already one fire service with two arms: SAFECOM Paid and Volunteer.

the volunteer rural would be wayyy to much like the QLD RFS...

Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!

[Zippy]

Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!

*Zippy's Face plants on the Table*

"Dad's Army 3.0"

[Zippy]

Adelaide Now

"Both the department and the state's volunteer firefighting army are on standby across the state as north winds threaten to make a bad day worse."