What the SES does

[strikeathird]

Im still trying to work out what the SES does... ??

ok.. im a member of the cfs but this si my understanding, im sure chatty or B2 can add to this:

the ses does:

storm damage (trees, flooding, roofs flapping)
landsearch
vertical rescue
confined space rescue (in places)
vehicle accident rescue
urban search and rescue
structural stailisation jobs (im sure theres a better name for that)
marine rescue (in places)
lighting at crime scenes
shelter at crime scens etc..
assist in evacuating people during floods, fires, etc..
assist other services (SAAS with patient lifts, etc..)
animal rescues

etc etc etc...

I was being a smart *** .

As you were with the MFS wannabe's comment in another thread..

[OMGWTF]

nothin wrong with that

[Chatty]

Sorry folks, been a bit busy lately with job interviews and such - but some interesting posts recently.

Yes, both organisation's names lead to problems - fire isn't the only thing CFS (or MFS) do - and "emergency" is just so vague...
That's why David Place is re-branding SES as "SES RESCUE" to emphasise our rescue role.

Interestingly, David flagged in a recent newspaper article that he can see a time in the not too distant future when the public won't perceive separate agencies - they will just perceive one big emergency/fire/rescue/search/USAR/whatever organisation...

There is a tendency to get get caught up in the mine is bigger than yours syndrome - it's a really good reason why there should be more cooperative training exercises between the services!
And yeah - I bet that most SES/CFS members don't know what is on the average vehicle from the other service.

What I was trying to get at with the name thing is that SES don't do fires (that's why we have a CFS) and CFS don't do "emergencies" - in terms of things like search, USAR, vertical rescue, etc.

I think there is too much of a tendency to badge RCR as "real" rescue and everything else as just playing games.  For my money, crawling through a collapsed structure (or a cave) looking for casualties is one of the scariest things you will ever do gives you a whole new perspective on rescue.

Much as I like RCR, if I never have to cut another screaming kid (or adult) out of a car I wouldn't be too upset.

Something that I didn't convey well is that the two services complement each other and can work together well if some people swallow their egos and try to get along - and those people are in both services!

As far as RCR goes, I personally think that in the Adelaide Hills the current system where CFS provide second response to CFS is shortsighted and asking for trouble as there will come a time when the CFS will be fully involved in fire fighting (the Hills is ready and waiting for another fire disaster) and a road crash will happen.  The only choice will be to pull fire fighting resources out of that battle to attend the road crash.  Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense for SES (who can't fight fires) to attend the RCR in those circumstances?

So, for my money, lets work towards CFS backing up SES when they can, and SES backing up CFS when the brown stuff hits the rotating blades - that's why I would like to see my SES Unit develop an RCR capability.

Play safe people

Chatty

[Chatty]

Just a couple more thoughts...

Yep, the little tacker in the pic would have to qualify as our youngest member - he's the son of one of my female members (who lives, breathes, drinks and eats SES) and I couldn't resist hijacking the photo
William is also my "adopted" grandson...

As for the bloke who had his application rejected from SES because he lives too far away - that decision would have been made at a Unit level.
I have members who live 30+ minutes away - as well as quite a few who are 15 or so minutes away - and they form my "second response" team.

The idea is that my closest members get to the Unit first, respond with one vehicle and get to the scene.  The second responders can then either back them up with a second vehicle and/or additional people or are able to attend any subsequent jobs that may come in.  This has worked well as quite often the first team will get to a job and find it's not what we were told and will get the second team to bring additional equipment or whatever with them.
And how many times have we had one job come in to be followed by a second while we are still travelling to the first?

Be safe people

Chatty

[strikeathird]

I think their are a couple of CFS brigades that do the "emergencies" such as Vertical Rescue training.  I think stirling have some vert. rescue equipment and I thought naracoorte did also, can you confirm Blinky.. ?



At the end of the day, no matter what each service does, it comes down to needing the help at the big jobs...

[CFS_Firey]

As far as RCR goes, I personally think that in the Adelaide Hills the current system where CFS provide second response to CFS is shortsighted and asking for trouble as there will come a time when the CFS will be fully involved in fire fighting (the Hills is ready and waiting for another fire disaster) and a road crash will happen. The only choice will be to pull fire fighting resources out of that battle to attend the road crash. Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense for SES (who can't fight fires) to attend the RCR in those circumstances?

So, for my money, lets work towards CFS backing up SES when they can, and SES backing up CFS when the brown stuff hits the rotating blades - that's why I would like to see my SES Unit develop an RCR capability.

Play safe people

Chatty

I can't speak for all other RCR brigades, but I know that Stirling is still able to respond to an RCR during a bushfire, our Rescue gear is on our Rescue truck (Which doesn't go to fires) and we have an Omnitool on our pumper, which usually doesn't go to bushfires either...

However, I completely agree that there should be more cooperation between SES and CFS, it would be good to do some joint training and find out more about the other service, and maybe evenset up some SOP's on when the SES should be or can be responded...

[OMGWTF]

I was at a house fire the other day where both group rescue resources were tied up... and i mean tied up as in hose lines off, and plumbed in to hydrants..

up heres for thinking

[oz fire]

As far as RCR goes, I personally think that in the Adelaide Hills the current system where CFS provide second response to CFS is shortsighted and asking for trouble as there will come a time when the CFS will be fully involved in fire fighting (the Hills is ready and waiting for another fire disaster) and a road crash will happen.  The only choice will be to pull fire fighting resources out of that battle to attend the road crash.  Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense for SES (who can't fight fires) to attend the RCR in those circumstances?

Chatty - fair call, however CFS brigades and Groups, have for years followed brigade and group response plans. In many, many areas across the hills and state, there are already written plans to cover such events - occasionally an appliance carrying RCR equipment will be involved in fire fighting operations, however the system allows for back up and alike to occur or a switched on OIC will ensure, should the need arise they can be released.

Again - if we we in a well to do state, maybe additional rescue equipment could be purchased, for that one if twenty years - what if. Practices (current best practice) is deal with the incident you have, not the what if's otherwise CFS would have alot more appliances, equipment and alike and would probably also have vertical rescue, USAR etc for that just in case an incident should occur when SES have storms and flooding and 200 jobs qued up waiting!

Again only my opinion, but there is already alot of duplication and as a tax payer and frequent responder my money could be better spend in other areas - new vehicles, updating old equipment, training, prevention, mitigation ... the list goes on and on and on!

[oz fire]

Re USAR - Maybe heres the answer we should all read...... it speaks for its self!

It appears our brothers interstae have it all wrapped up and in hand - no arguing here who has the role, both at home and abroad!


Message from NSWFB Commissioner Greg Mullins - Dated Monday - October 10.

"Following the weekend earthquake, the Government of Pakistan requested international assistance for disaster relief. A number of Governments dispatched Urban Search & Rescue (USAR) teams under bi-lateral arrangements that they had in place with the Pakistani Government.
 
On Sunday and today, as the national contact-person for USAR response, I have been in discussions with the Director General of Emergency Management Australia (EMA), the Commissioner of the Queensland Fire & Rescue Service (which at present is on-call for international USAR response), and the Director General of the Queensland Emergency Services Bureau.
 
At the same time, the Rescue Section and EMA monitored requests from the United Nations' Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) via the web-based "Virtual On-site Coordination Centre" (OSOCC). As of yesterday morning, the situation was as follows:
 
*  There had been no direct request to the Australian Govt for USAR support
 
*  A number of other countries including the UK, China, Japan, Turkey and Estonia had dispatched USAR teams to Pakistan to assist, and the Pakistani and Indian military were engaged in rescue / relief operations.
 
*  There are very significant logistical challenges, as roads, communication and other infrastructure have been severely damaged.
 
*  There is a significant need for food, clothing, medicine, water, shelter, and heavy-lift helicopters capable of working at high altitudes.
 
This morning, the UN reported on the OSOCC that no further rescue assistance is required. The Australian Government has focussed its efforts on providing humanitarian aid including water purification, food, and medicine. It is now highly unlikely that there will be an Australian USAR response, and if there is, it will be from the on-call (Qld) team. The NSWFB and QFRS, as the two international response task forces, work on a rotation basis.

[strikeathird]

I saw on the news a USAR team from the UK extricating a small child from the rubble.  Believe the only way they managed to get to the scene was by Helicopter due to critical infastructure being destroyed in the quake.

[Wagon 1]

Sorry, but I think you need to have a good hard look at how you operate before even thinking of being RCR, the RCR directory is set out to cater for these events. The only RCR within miles of Mt Barker that is not on a dedicated RCR appliance is Meadows, every other brigade has a dedicated rescue. You would not be able to cover an area any bigger than Mt Barker due to the fact your response times wouldn't allow it. So really, there isn't any point trying, the whole idea is to rationlise resources, not create more.

There is such a high concentration of RCR in the hills as it is that I really think adding another one into the picture would be a bit of overkill. Also, if your not in the RCR directory, then you don't exist as far as being turned out goes, and you have buckleys and none chance of getting in that book. You are not a recognised resource if your not in that green book, so there is a whole lot more to it than just getting some gear and going cutting when the fire service is a bit low on trucks.
You would have to be permenant 2nd rescue to ever be turned out.

[rescue5271]

Naracoorte rescue has verticale rescue gear aswell as cave rescue our guys did a rope rescue course last year(some of our new members) and we are a stand alone rescue/hazmat no pump,no water as the name says RESCUE and that is the way we like it as we are often out of town for long periods.

[strikeathird]

Thanks for clearing that up blinky...

[Robert]

Im still trying to work out what the SES does... ??

ok.. im a member of the cfs but this si my understanding, im sure chatty or B2 can add to this:

the ses does:

storm damage (trees, flooding, roofs flapping)
landsearch
vertical rescue
confined space rescue (in places)
vehicle accident rescue
urban search and rescue
structural stailisation jobs (im sure theres a better name for that)
marine rescue (in places)
lighting at crime scenes
shelter at crime scens etc..
assist in evacuating people during floods, fires, etc..
assist other services (SAAS with patient lifts, etc..)
animal rescues

So as a tax payer why do we need a Adelaide Hills SES- CFS already do all this in the hills (+ more)  and we have a lot more man power (15+ stations) and  much quicker response times  then just one SES unit- why double your services Both services are only volunteers and most cases CFS get called to most SES jobs in the Hills

[Mike]

Robert.....

How often do CFS train in Verical? marine rescue? landsearch? sand bagging? storm damage operations?

CFS train in their core business generally, likewise SES in theirs....
and both services need each others help.

For the record, Ive seen SES beat CFS to calls on quite a few occasions to, so dont be to quick to judge.

The following link contains discussion on combining of the services:

http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=214.0

[Wagon 1]

Ha, there's a good point Mike, we are trying to run multiple services in smallish towns, so whilst the SES rescue gets out, you are then putting the CFS in jeapordy by taking crews and vice versa, we can't run multiple services with limited people. I hate to say it, but you are never going to close the fire service, some sort of amalgamation otherwise all of us will continue to struggle, and it might stop all the carry on that happens now. You can't argue with yourself (well some do)!!

My experience is from an urban point of view, and its just a fact of life that SES recruit from a much larger area so its just a simple fact that they will take longer, you can't do anything about it, we in CFS or MFS are only able to recruit from such a limited area that we are used to quick urgent response times, its just a culture thing, those SES that are rescue are often recruiting people that wear 2 hats, so they are going to be a lot quicker.

[Robert-Robert34]

Thats very true David the SES often recruit a person who is wearing 2 hats but it's harder for us firies to become members of the SES so we have something to do during the off season 

Believe me i have tried about 2 or 3 times to join the SES but have had my application rejected just because i wear a cap which has a red and yellow SA State Logo with CFS printed in the middle

Why cant the CFS & SES in rural South Australia just get along with each other like their city relatives do as this silly cross service rivalry has gone on for long enough and should stop

[OMGWTF]

Believe me i have tried about 2 or 3 times to join the SES but have had my application rejected just because i wear a cap which has a red and yellow SA State Logo with CFS printed in the middle

bullshit robert.

you cant get in becasue you obviously live to far away... if anything the rivalry between CFS/SES in country areas is less than urban areas.

[Robert-Robert34]

Thats true OMGWTF i do live abit far away from any SES unit but the main reason i want to join is because Kalangadoo is a non RCR brigade and very rarely get's called out during winter

We could say that the rivalry between CFS & SES in both rural and urban South Australia is 50/50 but still i think it's abit silly for these 2 services to have a rivalry just because of a clash of who gets paged first to an emergency and who gets paged second as well as the uniforms being of similar colour

[rescue5271]

Robert,is there a need for you to join ses? also you have good RCR cover from Penola and millicent and then the SES so why would you want to join. Its also a long drive from doo to millicent to get on the SES appliances. Be happy with the service that you are in and may be get your brigade more involved in community education if your not doing alot now.

[OMGWTF]

believe roebrt is saying he wants to join SES so he has soemthing to respond to (trees/floods/storms) during the CFSs quieter months..

[kat]

I don't know how (or why) we would monitor CFS/SES rivalry and who has more, urban or rural. From my (limited) observations there are Units/Brigades who work extremely closely with many dual members and get along great. (Some of these are even asking, why not amalgamate?). Then I have seen intense, damaging, horrendous rivalry (yes, in rural areas) that has even jeopordised operations. I do know of an SES Unit that would not allow CFS members to join because they believed there would be a conflict. Not that this necessarily has anything to do with rivalry, I have also heard of SAAS being extra wary taking on fire service members because of availability/hard to serve two emergency services type thing.
I have also seen the same kind of damaging rivalry between Brigades in our own service.

Thankfully there are more and more of us on board whose main aim is to protect life and property from fire and other emergencies and have no time for petty rivalries.

[Robert-Robert34]

OMGWTF is right on the money being that Kalangadoo brigade goes to sleep during the winter months when nothing is happening i need to have something to do such as respond to storm damage or land search

As for rivalry between brigades in the CFS kat,Kalangadoo brigade had a rivalry with Nangwarry brigade because we beat the pants off of them in a competition for their CFS trophy shield they a long time ago but now we get along just fine

[strikeathird]

Isn't this about what the S.E.S does.. ??  Not who wants to join a unit, where they live, and various forms of rivalry....

 

[rescue5271]

Yes this is about the SES and over the last few days they have been busy and done a great job....