Soil dryness/dingos dongers/relevance?

[jaff]

So anyone who has a look at the Gov BOM SDIs would be noticing that they are worse than last year 07/08, anyone who has tried to dig a hole recently would attest to the accuracy of these figures.
Through the hills the gums are becoming more and more stressed, last year saw a die back of a fair number, this year may be worse? does this a change the way we potentialy fight fires .eg. fighting from the blacktop more and more, extra tankers/bwcs being called for.
Or is it just some whitemans magic to justify his degree, with no significance to us the emergency services!
Thoughts, my learned coleauges? Numbers you can play too ,even though you are a drooling halfwit!

[6739264]

*gurgle gurgle*

In terms of how we fight fires I think that it is still a case of wet on the hot and get stuck in as we always do(duh). No real use to introduce new policies and the like based on data that may or may not have any significance.

Oddly enough it might be time for local OIC's to look up and live, and not just with power lines. If you are working in an area with a substantial amount of dieback, watch where you are going and throw a few more red flag warnings out.

Once again if substantial amounts of your local rural risk has suddenly turned from nice healthy trees into dry ready to explode wood, then perhaps fast incident escalation, or at the very least making note of possible crazy fire behaviour should be warrented.

Does this a change the way we potentially fight fires .eg. fighting from the blacktop more and more, extra tankers/bwcs being called for.
Or is it just some whitemans magic to justify his degree, with no significance to us the emergency services?

Speaking of white mans magic, *poof* wow, you've turned into a vic! Make Tankers lots!

[misterteddy]

*gurgle gurgle*

perhaps fast incident escalation, or at the very least making note of possible crazy fire behaviour should be warrented.

i think this is going to be a feature for a while...maybe permanently, throw lots at it very quickly isn't a bad option most times. It will dent a few egos to accept "others" coming in to their patch of turf, rather than handling it all internally.....but I think maybe thats going to pass in time.

As Numbers said, water is (and will always be) an issue for the interface risks...no real options for dry techniques here. Be interesting to see what  the plan is for extra Tankers (real CFS tankers not these silly Eastern states BWC things). Has anyone seen any of the supposed refitted old appliances with new Tanks fitted operational yet?

[SA Firey]

I would have to agree that fast incident escalation will be a key factor this season to get on top of grass/scrub jobs, sooner you get there sooner you go home

[Zippy]

I would have to agree that fast incident escalation will be a key factor this season to get on top of grass/scrub jobs, sooner you get there sooner you go home

i agree, jumping on top of incidents will produce a shorter incident duration, simple as that....provided u dont go overkill    putting the appropriate number of workers onto a job while giving them the right amount of hours = happy workers

[Pipster]

*gurgle gurgle*

perhaps fast incident escalation, or at the very least making note of possible crazy fire behaviour should be warrented.

i think this is going to be a feature for a while...maybe permanently, throw lots at it very quickly isn't a bad option most times. It will dent a few egos to accept "others" coming in to their patch of turf, rather than handling it all internally.....but I think maybe thats going to pass in time.

As Numbers said, water is (and will always be) an issue for the interface risks...no real options for dry techniques here. Be interesting to see what  the plan is for extra Tankers (real CFS tankers not these silly Eastern states BWC things). Has anyone seen any of the supposed refitted old appliances with new Tanks fitted operational yet?

Hallett Group has had the first one delivered, details on Ozfire, and details & pics on Promo website

Pip

[Alan J]

I vote we take a chainsaw to the lot, forget about the no-dropping rule.
By the 6th or 7th hundredth tree the troops will have it figured.

Then concrete it all.
FDI with zero fuel is always zero.
Problem solvered.

 

[jaff]

shoot the mesenger, works for m.......

[mattb]

If you are working in an area with a substantial amount of dieback, watch where you are going and throw a few more red flag warnings out.

It was made clear to us at a recent Divisional Commander workshop that Red Flag warnings should not be used for potentially falling trees / limbs. The comment was made that anyone on the fireground that cannot remember from their BFF1 that when trees catch fire they fall over and drop limbs, really shouldn't be on the fireground in the first place.

The overuse of Red Flag warnings for 'minor / normal' situations results in undue radio congestion and also lessens the impact of them for actual changing situations.

Just passing on what we were told in pretty clear terms.

[OMGWTF]

100% right Matt, im fed up with stupid warnings...

As you said, anyone who cant remember that trees may drop limbs in the heat, or after a fire, probly deserves one on there head, or just shouldnt be on the fireground...

Same as all these warning re; slippery hills? bees? etc... waste of time.

[Zippy]

Would a example of a "good" red flag warning be sudden change of weather conditions etc....Property under threat?....A change in strategy to pull back to a safer position?

[jaff]

100% right Matt, im fed up with stupid warnings...

As you said, anyone who cant remember that trees may drop limbs in the heat, or after a fire, probly deserves one on there head, or just shouldnt be on the fireground...

Same as all these warning re; slippery hills? bees? etc... waste of time.

Some warnings are stupid sounding if they dont stress you (eg) steep terrain, struth any thing flatter than a cliff up my way has a bowling green on it, so these so called gentle rolling hills that generate red flags make me smile, But things like bees can be life threatening if you have anafelactive reactions, so they may sound ridiclous to some but life threatening to others, it's all about perspective!

[misterteddy]

Would a example of a "good" red flag warning be sudden change of weather conditions etc....Property under threat?....A change in strategy to pull back to a safer position?

IMHO

sudden change in weather - absolutely, exactly what they are to be used for....Critical Safety messages that everyone on the firegorund needs

Property under threat - nope, just needs a tactical sitrep unless the crew is under threat at that location, then upgrade it to a Mayday and call in the saviour from above (Elvis.....not Jesus)

Change in Randon Decision Making masking as strategy - Nup....thats just a Sitrep and directive instruction.....less talking and more firefighting is the go

Red Flag warnings are very useful for alerting the fireground to previously unknown hazards, that need everyone to be aware of. The Mt Bold fire incident of the Sector Commanders vehicle finding a mineshaft (by falling into it), is a good example. A forecast weather change that u were made aware of in your briefing doesnt warrant a RFW i don't think......but a ship-load of bees that suddenly appear in the middle of our playground looking for someone to annoy might

[Pipster]

My area is fairly steep, (part of the Adelaide Hills) and we had a fire which flatlanders were invited to (no offence intended to flatlanders!)

Someone from the flat, issued a red flag warning for "steep terrain" - and it wasn't even the steepest part of the area!!

If someone can't work out the terrain is steep.....

That sort of warning simply trivialises the system of Red flag warnings.

A red flag warning however, was given earlier in regard to rocks being knocked loose, and rolling down the hill towards those below.... in the situation, a far better use of a red flag warning.....

Pip

[OMGWTF]

100% right Matt, im fed up with stupid warnings...

As you said, anyone who cant remember that trees may drop limbs in the heat, or after a fire, probly deserves one on there head, or just shouldnt be on the fireground...

Same as all these warning re; slippery hills? bees? etc... waste of time.

Some warnings are stupid sounding if they dont stress you (eg) steep terrain, struth any thing flatter than a cliff up my way has a bowling green on it, so these so called gentle rolling hills that generate red flags make me smile, But things like bees can be life threatening if you have anafelactive reactions, so they may sound ridiclous to some but life threatening to others, it's all about perspective!

I know what ya mean mate, but does that mean i should issue a red flag warning at every job i go to, just because its spring & summer and the bees might be out? I understand all about allergies [being allergic to bees myself] but even i think its stupid.

My main point was, that some OICs just take delight in hearing there own voice...

[6739264]

You could almost suggest that there is little use for red flag warnings in the form in which they are used these days. Falling limbs, steep terrain, ants, snakes, loose rocks on burnt ground and most of your other everday uses for red flag warnings come down to the basic use of your eyes. If you went to a rural job, depending on the terrain, wouldn't you expect ALL of these things?

Its the things like a change in weather, a strong shift in wind, a gully wind starting up in a peculiar direction, a section of road/track collapsing or becoming impassable that really warrant a Red Flag warning. 

[boredmatrix]

isn't this a case of "City Slicker develops procedures for country bumpkins??"