3rd alarm Hazmat, Salisbury 15/09/08

[chook]

Good to see that the old "this is my turf" thing is getting another run.
Numbers if the "Orange people", are not up to the task - thats because for a number of years they have been treated as second class. That situation is slowly changing.
I would like to know when is the Country Fire Service going to stop trying to be the jack of all trades?
Some of you are happy to do a Change of Quarters to paid metro stations, but when the reverse is true look out!
You people have great training, equipment & people and a good funding model as well. Yet it's waisted in duplication, empire building and turf protection.
By the way All emergencies are owned by the community, not by one particular service.
As I have said in the past the 3 services need to remember why they were formed & stop worrying about what everyone else is doing! If the Mets come out to do a very major job in a CFS area people should be cheering, not having a whinge!
As a matter of interest here in NSW, the duplication thing is being soughted as I speak with the ambulance service rescue teams being cut back, so think about it.
You guys are very lucky, tax payer provided equipment, vehicles etc & you don't have to fund raise & beg for the basics - its issued (do you have to fund raise to pay the phone bill for example? Until recently they did here!)
So in closing think about Why you are really there, instead of bitching all of the time!
cheers

[6739264]

Good to see that the old "this is my turf" thing is getting another run.
Numbers if the "Orange people", are not up to the task - thats because for a number of years they have been treated as second class. That situation is slowly changing.

Ok, lets just stop this before it begins. My comments were directed to metro units, who are not treated as second class, they are just untrained and unused in RCR roles because the Fire Service handles it well and they are not needed. The CFS is not attempting to be a jack of all trades, merely continuing on a tradition that has always been there. If you believe that the CFS is attempting to be a jack of all trades, then by god the SAMFS is most certainly guilty as well.

Chook, being from the country, you of all people should know about the lack of volunteers and having a single pool of people, not split between services, providing all emergency services to a town is most certainly the most beneficial way for things to operate.

No point getting into another discussion about SES vs Fire here, as we all already know each others opinions.

I think half the problem with people getting so antsy about what the other services are doing and whose area they are in comes from personality clashes. There are idiots in all our emergency services, if only we could see past that and not tar all brigades/unit/stations with the same brush it would be great. This is not to say that I'm not very guilty of this myself...

[chook]

Same Same
Just seems to me that some (not necessarily you mate)hate the idea of a multi agency combined response or mutual aid is a bad idea & use the argument of "well we could do this all by ourselves, if we have the gear!).
This is just plain stupid in my humble opinion, it is waistful of equipment, time & people!
As for the SES thing - personally I don't care! (not part of that organisation any more)Except that history backs up what I said & it is slowly changing across the whole service - so how about looking at the service with fresh eyes & give them a chance! They could be trained but there are some within SES who think the metro units are just a waste!
Anyway mate as always its good to have an intelligent conversation with someone who has very different views to me.
cheers

[6739264]

Very true chook. One thing that we seem to lose sight of so often as Volunteers in all SA Emergency Services is that we are pretty damn well off when compared to the rest of the country. We may not have Scania Pumps, Brontos, CFW Cylinders or Salvage/Rescues like the CFA, but in the scheme of things, we are right up there in terms of training, equipment and vehicles. Even for a small state with a small budget.

Dont worry Chooky, we dont differ all that much I think - We both agree on common sense

[Pipster]

It wasn't that long ago that her in SA, brigades did have to fundraise to pay their phone bill, (if they even had a phone!), put fuel in the 25 year old truck, which they still had, because their community didn't have the capacity to raise enough funds to buy a newer one...

Some areas were lucky, and had good support from the local council, and the basics (and sometimes more) were funded.  Other areas had a very supportive council, but that council didn't have the capcity to pay much....

In the mid to late 1990's there was a Group in the Mid North, who survived on the same amount of money as one Hills brigade......

It is all very well to go on about how lucky SA is compared to other states, but it only because there was a lot of pushing done in the mid to late 1990's to enable a state based funding model to come through.....it's just that the other states are just along way behind us!!

Pip

[JamesGar]

Pip in the 90's there were 2 Groups in R1 which had an operating budget less than a couple brigades in the same region!

[6739264]

Quick Quick!

For funding fun:
http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,1952.0.html

[bajdas]

Good to see that the old "this is my turf" thing is getting another run.
Numbers if the "Orange people", are not up to the task - thats because for a number of years they have been treated as second class. That situation is slowly changing.

Ok, lets just stop this before it begins. My comments were directed to metro units, who are not treated as second class, they are just untrained and unused in RCR roles because the Fire Service handles it well and they are not needed....

Sorry, I can't 'stop' this without a comment 

Numbers, please visit Noarlunga, Tea Tree Gully or Sturt SES Units to have a look. Agreed all of the operators are not perfect, but some are damn good.

The other Central Region SES Units are building, but I agree are not at that level.

Yes, they are not experienced RCR, but you would have the equipment in the truck for you to use. They are also experienced in other forms of industrial and urban rescue techniques that CFS might not be.

As people keep saying, fire incidents are not the only incident that CFS & MFS are responding to now  SES can assist with the others.

All I suggest is look at the risk and the best method all three services can provide equipment/people to meet that risk.

I also think COQ plans need to be created for Rural (non MFS) areas. When a CFS Brigade is at COQ to a MFS station, then they have less resources in their original area. Is this planned for (other than the page of 'we have limited volunteers in the area, pls respond to calls' ) ?

*** my personal opinion only ***

[6739264]

...HUFF PUFF WHAT ABOUT US!...

Yes the SES in the Central region are great with their salvage sheets and some of their shoring jobs - I'll agree with that. I've dealt personally with TTG and Sturt at jobs, and Sturt especially have proven to be incompetent at cutting down trees, a job that is meant to be your bread and butter.

I'll agree that there should be the possibility for the SES to assist at times when the Fire Service is stretched thin, but at the same time, when the metro crews (the ones who would do any of your suggested CoQ) are not competent in the most basic of tasks, how on earth can you compare them to Fire Services that do the job day in day out and allow them to take their place?

Anyhow, this is not the area for such a discussion, and from your other posts on this forums its obvious that you would prefer if the Fire Service State-wide did nothing but fires and that the SES had a collection of vehicles in Wakefield st. For CBD Rescue. Its like slamming your head against a brick wall.

[Bagyassfirey]

not sure which brigade ur talking bout but i saw cockburn mention there...if it is them ya mite find there non existent....

[6739264]

not sure which brigade ur talking bout but i saw cockburn mention there...if it is them ya mite find there non existent....

And with them went the best Brigade name in the whole state!

[Bagyassfirey]

not sure which brigade ur talking bout but i saw cockburn mention there...if it is them ya mite find there non existent....

And with them went the best Brigade name in the whole state!

hehehe yea its now up in the north east of the state some where

[chook]

Still closed down - sadly agree good name but

[Bagyassfirey]

sorry i correct my self its in the north west in the aboriginal lands

[chook]

yep think i know where

[bajdas]

.....Anyhow, this is not the area for such a discussion, and from your other posts on this forums its obvious that you would prefer if the Fire Service State-wide did nothing but fires and that the SES had a collection of vehicles in Wakefield st. For CBD Rescue. Its like slamming your head against a brick wall.

I have sent you a private message rather than post in this thread....you could not be further from the truth. But that is the wonder of text, it can be mis-interpreted.   

[boredmatrix]

But that is the wonder of text, it can be mis-interpreted.

wow - who would have thought?...on a forum that has a core group of nerds with nothing better to do than get upset at other forum members who use this site as a source of amusement (or was that wonderment) at how many narrow-minded people there are in the world who call themselves professional (sic) volunteers!!

[6739264]

But that is the wonder of text, it can be mis-interpreted.

wow - who would have thought?...on a forum that has a core group of nerds with nothing better to do than get upset at other forum members who use this site as a source of amusement (or was that wonderment) at how many narrow-minded people there are in the world who call themselves professional (sic) volunteers!!

Hey hey hey! This forums is a very serious place, and should be treated as such. All of the discussion that goes on here is vitally important to all those involved! My goodness boredmatrix, I simply cannot believe that you would come in here and suggest that these forums are full of narrow minded people! Personally I have never met a group of such welcoming and open minded people in my entire life!

[safireservice]

sorry i correct my self its in the north west in the aboriginal lands

Might want to re-correct yourself its about 70k from Broken Hill just over the SA border.

[TillerMan]

NSWFB are currently covering the cockburn area.

I got bored reading all the posts but the idea i got was that ses want to do COQ, mmm that would never work because even if you did send a cfs stand alone rescue into the city then the crew could at least still grab an air set and hose off of a firetruck and use it where as ses can't.

And yes most groups have plans for if trucks leave their area of how to cover the area. eg strategic stations to keep appliances at.

[chook]

No Tillerman - only one ses member flagged that idea. It is not practical for volunteers from SES to sit on their arse in a station (away from their payed jobs) while payed firefighters do their thing! Just the same as CFS vollies doing COQ.
By the way who is covering Broken Hill while NSWFB is over the border? Think you would find it would be a dual response(NSWFB & NSWSES) just like it was a few years ago (according to an ex Cockburn member who had to join NSWSES to do RCR).
Anyway I'm sure there will be arguments until dooms day about this subject, there are good reasons for CFS to do COQ (experience etc) & bad (after all it is only supposed to be a part time volunteer requirement to serve your local community).
Unless of course most CFS members in the fringe areas are unemployed & are looking for something to do - this I very much doubt
cheers

[TillerMan]

Not that it matters that much but an interesting thing to note is that most Vollies in the urban area wouldn't leave work to go to calls as not many work near their station, they would generally be shift workers at home or unemployed or self employed i would think. This is why some urban brigades struggle during the day, because everyone leaves the area to go to work elsewhere.

I am surprised more retained aren't used for COQ, Kapunda and Tanunda aren't that far away. Considering Nuri went to the Hazmat.

[Zippy]

nah Nuri, Stirling and Balhannah (the change over shift) got turned back as they scaled down the job around the same time they went mobile.

[Bagyassfirey]

sorry i correct my self its in the north west in the aboriginal lands

Might want to re-correct yourself its about 70k from Broken Hill just over the SA border.

has it gone back up there or are we got our wires crossed with what we are talking about?

[OMGWTF]

sorry i correct my self its in the north west in the aboriginal lands

Might want to re-correct yourself its about 70k from Broken Hill just over the SA border.

has it gone back up there or are we got our wires crossed with what we are talking about?

You were correct the first time mate, Cockburn is a small town north east of Adelaide. On the NSW/SA border.