Turnout Confirmation

[6739264]

There are a few systems getting around the country that deal with turning out fire/rescue personell that aren't attached to a station 24/7. Basically both the volunteers and the retained folks.

One of the better ones I've seen turns out the station, then calls the members attached with a recorded message basically stating: "Fire call, are you able to turn out? 1 for yes, 2 for no, 3 for unsure(eg: checking with boss)" This then reports back to comms, stating who (all based on numbers, not names) has been contacted and their response. This allows comms to have the jump on brigades that have low numbers and the possibility of requiring another brigade to be turned out.

Would something like this work for the CFS? Maybe we look at setting up day/night/weekend lists. Certain people get called 24/7 others not during 9-5 etc etc. Although integrating a system like this would no doubt be very difficult to do considering the amount of changes no doubt required, and the fact that some people no doubt don't want to be 'accountable' for turning out to things.

It would help with more speedy brigade defaulting, especially in time critical incidents such as structure fires and also give members already at the station a better idea of the amount of crew coming in. No one else coming? then you don't need to wait for another 5 minutes 'just in case'. Its not as invasive as set rosters, but also allows people to put down what times they are contactable for.

[SA Firey]

Most stations already have a board with crews availability on them and its a case of when the pager goes off if your available you respond.

Last thing we need is the SES style of getting a page,and wasting more minutes by ringing the Duty Officer with whether your available or not, if you can respond just go.
 
My opinion

[Pipster]

I believe there is one system around, being trialled...(might be in Victoria?) where you can send a message direct from your pager, to confirm your attendance...

Basically, the pager message for the call comes through, if you can respond within the appropriate time frame, you press the relevant button on the pager, and your message is sent to the releveant person / perole / computer advising of how many are coming....

However, having said that, I have a fairly good idea of who is around the district on any given day, and how many are likely to respond.

Particularly on bad fire days, I know exactly who is around, and who can respond, and when......

But my brigade is fairly small, and not a huge number of calls, so it is fairly easy to know the availability of the crews...

Pip

[6739264]

Most stations already have a board with crews availability on them and its a case of when the pager goes off if your available you respond.

Last thing we need is the SES style of getting a page,and wasting more minutes by ringing the Duty Officer with whether your available or not, if you can respond just go.
 
My opinion

Ok, lets try this again. Go to the top of the page, read my post then write a response.

There is nothing to do with a Duty officer, you don't ring anyone and yes, you just go.

[SA Firey]

There are a few systems getting around the country that deal with turning out fire/rescue personell that aren't attached to a station 24/7. Basically both the volunteers and the retained folks.

One of the better ones I've seen turns out the station, then calls the members attached with a recorded message basically stating: "Fire call, are you able to turn out? 1 for yes, 2 for no, 3 for unsure(eg: checking with boss)" This then reports back to comms, stating who (all based on numbers, not names) has been contacted and their response. This allows comms to have the jump on brigades that have low numbers and the possibility of requiring another brigade to be turned out.

Same as calling in really and I used the Duty Officer as an example not gospel

Would something like this work for the CFS? Maybe we look at setting up day/night/weekend lists. Certain people get called 24/7 others not during 9-5 etc etc. Although integrating a system like this would no doubt be very difficult to do considering the amount of changes no doubt required, and the fact that some people no doubt don't want to be 'accountable' for turning out to things.[/quote]



It would help with more speedy brigade defaulting, especially in time critical incidents such as structure fires and also give members already at the station a better idea of the amount of crew coming in. No one else coming? then you don't need to wait for another 5 minutes 'just in case'. Its not as invasive as set rosters, but also allows people to put down what times they are contactable for.
[/quote]

Thats what the board already does

[6739264]

Same as calling in really and I used the Duty Officer as an example not gospel
...
Thats what the board already does

It takes far less effort and is a simulatneously automated process, unlike having 40+ members call the ONE officer.

The board doesn't take into account people needing to run to the shops, or being tied up at the moment the call comes in. In sure people go to the station and update the board multiple times a day

[SA Firey]

Same as calling in really and I used the Duty Officer as an example not gospel
...
Thats what the board already does

It takes far less effort and is a simulatneously automated process, unlike having 40+ members call the ONE officer.

The board doesn't take into account people needing to run to the shops, or being tied up at the moment the call comes in. In sure people go to the station and update the board multiple times a day

and people taking a crap etc.

We have 4 minutes to acknowledge the page for Urban brigades and 6 minutes Rural.
If you dont have the crew and cant respond you then default to next CFS brigade if its CFS area,or back to MFS if its theirs and they will send the next appropriate resource as per SOP's.

Why waste more money on another system

[6739264]

Why waste more money on another system

Sorry Champ, I should have known better than to try and start some stimulating discussion. Anyways, back to whining about screwy responses...

[SA Firey]

Why waste more money on another system

Sorry Champ, I should have known better than to try and start some stimulating discussion. Anyways, back to whining about screwy responses...

Stimulating discussion is fine, but lets get the system we're currently using right before we try to throw another one into the mix eh

[6739264]

Stimulating discussion is fine, but lets get the system we're currently using right before we try to throw another one into the mix eh

Yeah, you're right. I was so close to handing it to Euan, had the appointment and everything.

Hows the overalls, woollen turnout coat and top guard treating you anyway? They ain't broke either...

[littlejohn]

I imagine anyone responsible for ensuring the brigade's turnout would be interested in this sort of thing. It can be a tense few moments standing by the truck wondering if any more people are going to turn up.

Am I right in assuming that pagers no longer exist in this scenario - we just get a phone call?
Upside = ability for feedback (as you pointout)
Downside = I have my pager on me semi-permanenently (bedside table, in pocket on silent in meetings etc) so I know when it goes off something's up. I don't sleep with my phone, and I ignore it during meetings, dinner/when out etc, so I'd probably miss calls. 
But that's just me!!

I like the principle because I'm often the one wondering if more crew are going to turn up. I'm just not sure how many of our crew would take to it. Like most things, I guess if you introduce a new system, people will adapt.

[Zippy]

I bet improving the current Alerts System would achieve this!

It would mean a phone number for every brigade to have conference calls,  you would have a electronic voice say to you:   

STRATHALBYN CFS RESPONSE, PRESS 1 TO RESPOND, PRESS 2 FOR DELAYED RESPONSE, PRESS 3 TO NOT RESPOND. 

The "3" from 04xx xxx xxx would mean  JOE BLOGGS is NOT RESPONDING.



Mod note: random numbers - never know who your going to call...

[Robert-Robert34]

Most stations already have a board with crews availability on them and its a case of when the pager goes off if your available you respond.

This would be a good idea to use during the summer to see how many people are available but as what SA Firey said it really pends on whether you can turn up or not 

[Zippy]

Mod note: Smiley random numbers - never know who your going to call...

owww, but thats the whole fun of it!!  somebody puts up a random number..and everybody rings it to see who it is   Its probably some old person in a nursing home!


Mmm, roberts right, The Page comes, people still remain to have a choice to respond or not respond, as they may have something come up at short notice, and not have the time to update there availability.

[matthew]

It would be great to know who can / cant make the job, however there are a few issues with using mobile phone technology for a task like this.

Pager messages are just blasted out, if your pager gets it then great, if not meh it tried its best.

An automated phone message system requires that an individual call be placed to each recipient, which must be answered, rejected or dialed out.  The issue is that this is using basic phone cell tower concepts, and I can just imaging what would happen on a big day when the system requests a strike team and then call each of the members - chaos.  Phones use a similar cell system that the GRN does, need I say more.

However it would be very cool if you could push a magic button on your pager which then sent a response back to either your station or comms and gave an indication as to your availability.  Pip has already indicated that this style communication is being trailed elsewhere.

One of the biggest issues with maintaining a list of phone numbers is that they change, but are not updated on the right 'system'.  Alerts has all sorts of strange phone numbers in it, and very confused non CFS members trying to answer the calls.

Of course this always comes down to cost - and as I see it there are far more important things to spend the dollars on that the status of individual members during a turnout.

[6739264]

Am I right in assuming that pagers no longer exist in this scenario - we just get a phone call?

I'm still a big fan of the pagers, given mobile phones occaisionally having issues. If you don't have your phone on you, you still have your pager. Not to mention your pagers still gives you incident details.

[Robert-Robert34]

Pagers are the way to go but it would be good idea to have turn out info sent to mobile numbers if the pager isnt carried around although what matthew said is true alot of volunteers do tend to change their numbers if they switch service providers or buy a new phone

So it would be difficult to keep up but still its a great idea     

[rescue5271]

CFA have a system that they have been using for sometime not sure fully how it works but its along the lines pager goes off you push a button on your pager to say that you are attending. First member at station gets a print out of who is attending the call from the ranks.... Not sure which region was using this but I would say it would have to be region 8 or 13....

[Robert-Robert34]

Theres always a possibility that kinda system could be introduced here in South Australia in the next few years cause it sounds like one that would be real useful

[Darren]

I saw a system in America that uses a free call number and a computer in the station, when you get a call you ring this number and it recognises your number and puts your name on the computer as attending, so when you are at the station you see a list of people that are on their way. It also enables you to update availability to.
Was simple to use as you just ring a number, no talking, texting or anything.

[Zippy]

Thats a decent system darren.

i can just see it now:   "Speed dial 9"

[24pumper]

.

[allan]

Bill,

haven't heard of that system being used with pagers here in Vict.

Certainly a response sytem has been used by some brigades in that members use a phone to ring in to a dedicated number.

Much like (or the same as) the system described by Darren. Doesn't need anyone to answer. It just logs as an incoming unanswered call which is identified by line calling technology (NOTE: only ring in if you ARE attending!)

The pager idea would be great - but basically they're cheap(ish) radio receivers - not transmitters!

[bajdas]

Taking a step back & not worrying about $$$, would you agree that people in incident control need to know what vehicle & crew (& the total capabilities of both) are responding to an incident ?? Then the incident controller (either local or regional or state) can make a decision with the right information.

If starting with all new equipment & no $$$ restrictions, then I would suggest you need:

** some form of electronic acknowledgement by the crew that the response request has been received & how many are responding. If this electronic response provided a volunteer member number, then this can be linked to their training record. Then you would know that 2 are BA qualified, 1 is a newbie and 1 is RCR. The method that the volunteer activates this response needs to be quick, fool-proof and legal while driving.

** somehow the information on 'how long before the member arrives' would be nice.

** when someone enters the shed, their electronic keycard is scanned to update the system stating that this volunteer member has arrived in the shed.

** the team leader or SFF then goes to a TIMS type system to get more incident information. This includes a response listing of personnel.

** the team leader would electronically allocate people to a vehicle. For SES, it can include which trailer is added to the vehicle capabilities (eg boat, flood pump, USAR).

** when the vehicle rolls, this is automatically recorded electronically. Could be a RF tag on the vehicle.

Then the incident controller knows what training each person has in the vehicle, what is the capabilities of the vehicle and what additional personnel are responding.

The incident controller can make the decision on if this is an adequate response or not to the incident. If it is adequate, then all other responding personnel are 'stop called' so they can get back to their private life.

If not adequate, then the incident controller can respond more resources.

Could all be done via a different type of devices to replace the existing pager and $$$. I think that the technology exists, but would take a lot of effort to integrate the existing data to display on a GIS system display.

What do people think of my fantasy ??

[Zippy]

Something that will:

1. Take as little as time as possible to do.
2. As little attention is given to it.

I see will work.   Diverting our attention and time (which affects responses) to do something rather low priority when we should be processing the pager info in our minds (ok house fire, take 34P, PBI gold, ensure approriate response, etc etc till the mind blows up) and already on the way to the station, may turnout to only be a hinderence.