Oxygen & AED stowage

[jaff]

One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.

[SA Firey]

One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.

Well we tried to get Oxy Viva for our appliances for that very reason, but Region says its A) not standard stowage and B)Cost of getting everyone accredited in Advance Resus is prohibitive.Whats your life worth very little in the eyes of CFS

[boredmatrix]

So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?

CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....

[SA Firey]

So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?

CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....

When I did my First Aid Course back in December the instructor at the time stated that by end 2008 all fire appliances will have Oxy Viva and Laerdal Defibralators....ill believe it when I see it

[Robert]

One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.

Well we tried to get Oxy Viva for our appliances for that very reason, but Region says its A) not standard stowage and B)Cost of getting everyone accredited in Advance Resus is prohibitive.Whats your life worth very little in the eyes of CFS

Weird coz all members at Mt Barker have done Advance Resus training (with regions approval) & we have the gear on the the trucks plus a few extra bits.
I have used it many times at jobs, with a very positive pt outcome.

[jaff]

So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?

CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....

When I did my First Aid Course back in December the instructor at the time stated that by end 2008 all fire appliances will have Oxy Viva and Laerdal Defibralators....ill believe it when I see it



Trust em.....The cheques in your mouth and I won't .... in your mail

[mattb]

Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the shits.

[SA Firey]

Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the filtered.

Kangarilla has it

[6739264]

So if its seen as standard stowage, does that mean that it gets issued? Or just gets the OK tick of approval?

I'm not a huge fan of Snr. First Aid being a requirement only for RCR, I believe it should be a minimum of qualification, like BFF 1.

In all honesty the 1st Aid and Resus stowage is more about saving firefighters lives than those of the public. It's great to have on board for RCR/Medical Assist, yet when you start couting the minutes taken to reach people, its far more valuable in a witnessed collapse - such as a firefighter down. Whats our greatest cause of fatalities?

I don't see any reason, apart from cost, for 1st aid/resus/AED *NOT* to be issued statewide. It would be a great PR stunt too - especially in rural areas with ambo coverage issues. Its not like the 'training' in Resus/AED is any stretch of intelligence. Its still basic CPR with mechanical assistance, and if you can't follow the AED prompts, then I hope you're resigning from the CFS.

[SA Firey]

So if its seen as standard stowage, does that mean that it gets issued? Or just gets the OK tick of approval?

I'm not a huge fan of Snr. First Aid being a requirement only for RCR, I believe it should be a minimum of qualification, like BFF 1.

In all honesty the 1st Aid and Resus stowage is more about saving firefighters lives than those of the public. It's great to have on board for RCR/Medical Assist, yet when you start couting the minutes taken to reach people, its far more valuable in a witnessed collapse - such as a firefighter down. Whats our greatest cause of fatalities?

I don't see any reason, apart from cost, for 1st aid/resus/AED to be issued statewide. It would be a great PR stunt to. Especially in rural areas with ambo coverage issues. Its not like the 'training' in Resus/AED is any stretch of intelligence. Its still basic CPR with mechanical assistance, and if you can't follow the WED prompts, then I hope you're resigning from the CFS.

This is my argument that its more for us than the public, and after 5 years of fighting for it through the right channels its a simple "NO" you cant have it because it costs too much 

[rescue5271]

Not True Matt,Naracoorte tyred to get it and where informed its not standrad gear....mind you most region one RCR brigade's have it....time for change on some of these state committees.... Remote area firefighting is something we see each year and but by the time you get there the house or shed is well involved or its on the ground,If your house is not in town it takes time to drive the 45KMS to your place but the its way to late....

[chook]

Bill it may be standard stowage for CFS RCR but O2 is not listed in the equipment list in the Road Crash Rescue directory. And this is the "bible".
And why should it? RCR brigades/units/teams role in life is to provide a Rescue capability, not be a "super team" that does everything!
Last time I looked into a SAAS bus they carried all of that stuff & based on recent events they would be paged to a RCR job before rescue, so why carry gear you don't need! It's just more training & maintenance you need to do.
On the other hand ask yourself why Inland marine don't carry O2? Would have thought the need was greater. If you want to take on the Paramedics job as well become a community responder unit for SAAS & all of the training & equipment needs would be coveeed by them
I think it's about time that CFS & it's people start looking at every wildfire enquiry in Australia since Ash Wednesday. Hidden in the pages somewhere is a recommendation that the Lead agency for wildfire (CFA,RFS,CFS)needs to focus on their core business - combating wildfire! Thats why in the states that have tried to combine their emergency services, there is still a volunteer "bush" fire brigade.
So in my humble opinion stop worrying about some piece of gear that someone else has (& something we have never missed) & just focus on what you have got & need.
cheers

[OMGWTF]

Agree with a lot of what your saying Chook, and im sure youll be expecting this...

But, CFS cant 'focus' on rural training only... Were not just the 'bushfire brigade' anymore.

[my comment not necessarily in regards to O2]

[chook]

Yep - expected that
Just sometimes think that CFS is trying to have its finger in too many pies & its really hurting the membership.
In the Riverland if someone wants to do stuff their local brigade doesn't do, they join another service as well.
I know there are CFS people in one of the local SAMFS stations & SAMFS people in a local SES unit, as well as CFS in SES, SAAS & St Johns etc.
Intersetingly the NSW VRA has recently changed their name to NSW RESCUE SERVICE, to reflect their core role!
It will become harder for CFS to attract & retain members if the list of requirements continues to grow, when all most people on a truck want to do is fight the wild fire in summertime.
cheers

[mattb]

Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the filtered.

Kangarilla has it wink

As I said Jeff - If you had it before they cracked down on the whole 'standard stowage' thing then you were ok, exactly the same reason we are able to keep the reciprocating saw kit and you guys have the lightweight cylinders. Try and get them now and it might be a different story - basically the RC has to approve it or it stays in your station.

Not True Matt,Naracoorte tyred to get it and where informed its not standrad gear

That is interesting Bill, I remember seeing all the 02 kits sitting in Region One a few years ago waiting to go out to all the RCR brigades, maybe your Region shafted you and you missed out.

[boredmatrix]

Get realistic - I know most of you are community minded, but having AED and O2 resus gear on the truck would be purely for selfish reasons...in looking after your own!  ...and not just for stowage on RCR appliances either....they should ALL have them!

Numbers is on the money.......

SAAS is slowly increasing it's capacity in rural areas - with more Volunteers Community Emergency First Responder (CERT) teams coming on board in areas where it's not been possible to put an ambulance - but as other inteligent individuals have pointed out..the difference in a save and a trip to the coroner's lies in having rapid access to the aforementioned equipment...

...and trust me when I say there's nothing more demoralising than losing one of your own when you know how much more of a chance at survival they would've had if access to BASIC LIFE SUPPORT equipment was available!

[OMGWTF]

thats probly what it will take though BM...

[chook]

Ok if it's for our own people then I agree - but don't use RCR as the justification!
cheers

[OMGWTF]

i dont think RCR is the justification at all Chook, this was the requirement that CFS set so that they could avoid the cost of issuing said equipment

[K55]

There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.

[OMGWTF]

There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.

Mate theres a group that has O2 on every appliance dunno bout your AED though, havent heard of one of those in the CFS yet

[chook]

Ah that expains it then - sorry if I miss read the post
Would have thought all fire appliances would have been equiped anyway as BM said for selfish? reasons. Would have thought basic first  aid for smoke inhalation, would have been O2? I mean your not going to do mouth to mouth are you?
And as for the AED more likely from over exertion at a fire?
Just the requirements for this equipment is higher in regards to training etc & the need to keep current - ask how many industrial sites with first aid rooms have an occupational first aider? This is a requirement under the current code of practice (which is being rewritten as I type). As a matter of fact the whole first aid thing is being looked into, due to the complex nature of the current system.
So unless SAAS is going to provide the equipment & training (like CERT training ) then it's a big ask. Maybe thats the answer - all emergency first responders are CERT trained? Would save the services heaps in first aid costs
Cheers

[SA Firey]

There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.

Mate theres a group that has O2 on every appliance dunno bout your AED though, havent heard of one of those in the CFS yet

That would be Region 7

Just to clarify BM we want it for firefighters as well as the public, which is the argument

[rescue5271]

We wanted it for two reasons,One we kept on beating SAAS to jobs or they where busy else where and there was a few needs for the O2 gear...secondly we did have a couple of jobs where SAAS showed up and the patient  or a member was fine and they Left the scene patient then collapsed and SAAS were re paged but busy else where. As I keep saying outside of Metro we are more than just the local fire service and my old brigade has members who are trained in how to drive the ambulance but are also trained in where the gear is and how it works.....

As for the autodefib I did hear that it was on a region one pumper....

[bittenyakka]

It will become harder for CFS to attract & retain members if the list of requirements continues to grow, when all most people on a truck want to do is fight the wild fire in summertime.
cheers

I wouldn't be to sure about that.

What caused this massive crackdown on standard stowage? It seems like a rather pointless (at least from these somewhat biased opinions on here) rule that just pisses every one off.