Author Topic: Booster/ Sprinkler/ Installed Fire Suppresion Systems/Equipment (Read 20609 times)

SA- Private- Contractor · « **on:** July 13, 2008, 04:09:24 PM »

REMOVED 18-07-08

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:21:18 PM »

Quote from: SA- Private- Contractor on July 13, 2008, 04:09:24 PM

Hi all i'm new to this forum so play nice.

I have worked in the fire industry for a large company and we have installed a large number of booster, sprinkler and back up pump sets over the past 15 years, trains on site fire fighting teams, and teaches fire units all over Asia. We also conduct the flow testing on them through our own large fire truck. The CFS should receive comprehensive training on the use of booster, FIPs and installed systems to save time and peoples lives. Currently the idea of a untrained CFS crew using a booster at a site we own or service is not a good one. If the booster is linked to the sprinklers and is over pressurised it could result in the sprinklers blowing and a drastic drop in water pressure. At the moment only the MFS has enough training to be able to use boosters and installed systems to their advantage. I allowed a 34p and two people for CFS HQ and showed them how to use the boosters efficiently. We then set up a 100ft running fire told them they would need to use the boosters... they failed horribley, NOT!!! because they were stupid, not paying attention but because they don't get the oppotunity to practise on them enough to have that conditioned response.

If the CFS is to be able to operate effective in the built up areas where they may be needed in the event (fingers crosses, Touch wood) that a fire get to the edge of the suburbs where boosters are avaliable or where a large rural factory or distribution centre (monarto Big W?) catches fire the CFS MUST be able to use the boosters without hesitation.

Also i have attached a pic of the truck my company is about to buy, its got a Waterous 2 stage, PTO driven pump with 4 BA seats.

Im under the impression there will be a course being introduced to eligible brigades within the next 12 months to deal with these issues. Whether it covers what you have outlined completely im not sure but i agree with you completely. The CFS has not upheld its obligation to train crews in the use of booster systems.

Our brigade has 3 boosters (that i am aware of) in our area and we have not had any training in how to use these or an appliance to use on these. Granted MFS also dual respond to these alarms but as has been said in a previous thread, we cant use them as an excuse to get a better truck, so why should they (HQ) be allowed to use the MFS as an excuse not to provide a sufficient truck? But anyway thats another issue.

uniden · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:30:33 PM »

Most CFS appliances apart from a few cannot boost properly anyway as they do not have the capacity too. ABout the only ones that can are:

Barker Rescue
Millicent Pumper
Seaford Pumper
Stirling Pumper
Hahndorf Pumper
Eden Hills Pumper
Nuriootpa Pumper
Murray Bridge Pumper
Happy Valley Pumper

Burnside??

bittenyakka · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2008, 06:06:50 PM »

Stirling pumper struggles.

but it is not just those brigades that need the training as anyone could any up working in that area

Alan J · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2008, 06:14:32 PM »

What pressure do sprinkler bulbs blow out at ?
(feel free to quote different figures for different temperatures)

Just trying to get a feel for how much of an issue this is really.

Lots of derogatory comments in here that CFS trucks mostly don't have the grunt
to drive booster systems anyway. (True if your intent is to run 4 x 64's at full
blast rather than a couple of 38's into a single room at the back of a school or
factory.)
Also note that it seems most metro CFS brigades have significant numbers of MFS
f/f's in them - so the skill IS in the CFS, just not all of it, & not provided
by the CFS.

cheers

rescue5271 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2008, 06:58:02 PM »

You forgot Naracoorte pumper, There are a number of fire protection firms with in SA that offer this service and most these days have their own appliance or have the pumps to do the job..not wanting to turn this site into a free plug a company.. If you guys want to promote your service then come along to field days or attend corporate days that are held around the state for those that are in the FPA....

SA Firey · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2008, 06:58:23 PM »

Hmmm Scania's up for sale already how much are they fetching?

SA- Private- Contractor · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2008, 07:08:28 PM »

REMOVED 18-07-08

OMGWTF · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2008, 12:42:30 PM »

Quote from: SA- Private- Contractor on July 13, 2008, 04:09:24 PM

If the CFS is to be able to operate effective in the built up areas where they may be needed in the event (fingers crosses, Touch wood) that a fire get to the edge of the suburbs where boosters are avaliable or where a large rural factory or distribution centre (monarto Big W?) catches fire the CFS MUST be able to use the boosters without hesitation.

Also i have attached a pic of the truck my company is about to buy, its got a Waterous 2 stage, PTO driven pump with 4 BA seats.

Firstly; CFS covers plenty of areas with large fire suppresion systems... Dont think that just because we are the "Country Fire Service" we are only out in the sticks.. CFS covers plenty of schools, hospitals, nursing homes, factories, shopping centres, etc...

No we [the CFS as a service] dont have very good urban training IN GENERAL, however i think you will find that a lot of brigades have organised there own training, or built on CFS training with the knowledge and experience of there own vollies. Sometimes, as in my brigade, they are lucky enough to have actual members of other services that are involced in training, or other training organisations. This helps... but CFS needs to get its act together and get rid of the attitude that we are a bushfire brigade when it comes to training...

Secondly... whats the need for the appliance you are purchasing? do you use it to train groups on or is it for onsite protection of your business?

SA- Private- Contractor · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2008, 12:51:11 PM »

REMOVED 18-07-08

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2008, 12:54:30 PM »

Fox Mulder · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2008, 01:45:28 PM »

Quote from: Cameron Yelland on July 13, 2008, 04:21:18 PM

Quote from: SA- Private- Contractor on July 13, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
Hi all i'm new to this forum so play nice.

I have worked in the fire industry for a large company and we have installed a large number of booster, sprinkler and back up pump sets over the past 15 years, trains on site fire fighting teams, and teaches fire units all over Asia. We also conduct the flow testing on them through our own large fire truck. The CFS should receive comprehensive training on the use of booster, FIPs and installed systems to save time and peoples lives. Currently the idea of a untrained CFS crew using a booster at a site we own or service is not a good one. If the booster is linked to the sprinklers and is over pressurised it could result in the sprinklers blowing and a drastic drop in water pressure. At the moment only the MFS has enough training to be able to use boosters and installed systems to their advantage. I allowed a 34p and two people for CFS HQ and showed them how to use the boosters efficiently. We then set up a 100ft running fire told them they would need to use the boosters... they failed horribley, NOT!!! because they were stupid, not paying attention but because they don't get the oppotunity to practise on them enough to have that conditioned response.

If the CFS is to be able to operate effective in the built up areas where they may be needed in the event (fingers crosses, Touch wood) that a fire get to the edge of the suburbs where boosters are avaliable or where a large rural factory or distribution centre (monarto Big W?) catches fire the CFS MUST be able to use the boosters without hesitation.

Also i have attached a pic of the truck my company is about to buy, its got a Waterous 2 stage, PTO driven pump with 4 BA seats.

Im under the impression there will be a course being introduced to eligible brigades within the next 12 months to deal with these issues. Whether it covers what you have outlined completely im not sure but i agree with you completely. The CFS has not upheld its obligation to train crews in the use of booster systems.

Our brigade has 3 boosters (that i am aware of) in our area and we have not had any training in how to use these or an appliance to use on these. Granted MFS also dual respond to these alarms but as has been said in a previous thread, we cant use them as an excuse to get a better truck, so why should they (HQ) be allowed to use the MFS as an excuse not to provide a sufficient truck? But anyway thats another issue.

Have you eva thought that it may just be up to you to find out how these boosters in your own area work!!!
Don't keep looking to pass the buck. Maybe instead of scheiße canning the MFS in the mount all the time ( as it seems thats all your group is capable off) and asking them to show you how they work. Time we all started to work together and at the end of the day as long as the fire gets put out then who really cares

SA- Private- Contractor · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2008, 02:01:56 PM »

REMOVED 18-07-08

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2008, 03:29:51 PM »

Quote from: Fox Mulder on July 14, 2008, 01:45:28 PM

Have you eva thought that it may just be up to you to find out how these boosters in your own area work!!!
Don't keep looking to pass the buck. Maybe instead of filtered canning the MFS in the mount all the time ( as it seems thats all your group is capable off) and asking them to show you how they work. Time we all started to work together and at the end of the day as long as the fire gets put out then who really cares

Yep ill agree with you. All our group does it scheiße can the local mfs. Not a view i or majority of my brigade hold! So before you tar everyone with the same brush you should do some research and nothing i mentioned in my previous post scheiße cans the local mfs!

And we have done local training with boosters and FIP's with the local MFS (so keep your donkey shut to prevent the scheiße you dribble coming out!) but this still does not give the CFS an excuse to pass the buck on training. But as i suggested earlier the CFS are in the process of addressing this issue, which is probaly being held up due to lack of funds.

Sorry my original comment should of stated we have not had any formal training provided by CFS on FIP's and Boosters.

Zippy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2008, 03:45:17 PM »

15:06:05 14-07-08 EARLY TRAINING TONIGHT 1845PM AT MAITLAND STATION - BOOSTER TRAINING - BRIGADE TRAINING OFFICER CFS Maitland Info

uniden · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2008, 05:51:05 PM »

Wait till you get a bigger truck before you worry about boosters Camo. You cant do much with your putt putt 24.

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2008, 07:01:05 PM »

Quote from: uniden on July 14, 2008, 05:51:05 PM

Wait till you get a bigger truck before you worry about boosters Camo. You cant do much with your putt putt 24.

Exactly. But we have done training in the past to understand how they work.

P P Snake · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:30:58 PM »

Stand by all, there has been a course developed which will cover all of your q's and has already been delivered to a brigade with more in the not to near future. It will cover responding and correct positioning of appliances at the scene, and how to operate the FIP and understand it's functions and how to connect up to the boosters. Even connecting up with a standard 24/34 can have results on a sprinkler system. Alot of new systems in rural areas are operated by an electric or diesel pump so there shouldn't need to be any boosting from the appliances.

pumprescue · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:35:07 PM »

Who is conducting the training ?

P P Snake · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:38:10 PM »

pumprescue · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2008, 10:06:06 PM »

Anyone imparticular or will it be a hand out that we teach internally ?

JC · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2008, 10:05:27 AM »

Is it Nat Accredited

Zippy · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2008, 10:26:58 AM »

does it need to be???

Hicksflat14 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2008, 02:39:39 PM »

There is nothing special or unique to a booster. It's the same as relay pumping which is not that different to any other pumping. There does not need to be a specific course for boosters, and pump usage should be continuously covered by your brigade on training nights.

The above list of appliances that can properly boost is wrong. Every appliance can boost it just depends on to what extent. If you can't boost with one appliance, then use two. Boosting isn't really a big issue like it's been made out to be.

P P Snake · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2008, 07:46:40 PM »

The course basically covers how to respond to alarm calls and how to operate the FIP. Most first arriving appliances are still rolling up to the front door because it's closer to walk to the panel. Should be parking near the booster!!!. As hicks flat said most appliances are able to boost a system. You don't necessarily need a big pumper to make it work. Some firies still can't determine a smoke detector to a thermal, it also covers reading block plans correctly and filling out the Attendance books. These courses will be held at local brigades and using a system in their area.

Author Topic: Booster/ Sprinkler/ Installed Fire Suppresion Systems/Equipment (Read 20609 times)

uniden

rescue5271

uniden

pumprescue

pumprescue