Booster/ Sprinkler/ Installed Fire Suppresion Systems/Equipment

[bittenyakka]

sounds really good. when will we hear it officially?

[pumprescue]

The course basically covers how to respond to alarm calls and how to operate the FIP. Most first arriving appliances are still rolling up to the front door because it's closer to walk to the panel. Should be parking near the booster!!!. As hicks flat said most appliances are able to boost a system. You don't necessarily need a big pumper to make it work. Some firies still can't determine a smoke detector to a thermal, it also covers reading block plans correctly and filling out the Attendance books. These courses will be held at local brigades and using a system in their area.

Errrrm, whats wrong with the first pump going to the door and the second pump going to the booster, thats how our response plans have always worked. Tend to find it much easier to fight a fire with the pumper out the front and the second pumper boosting the system.  I would be interested to see how not pulling up to the building makes it easier, especially with some boosters in our area being a LOOOOOONG way from any of the buildings. I look forward to this new course, should be interesting.......

[P P Snake]

ERRR are you telling me that all areas including rural areas that have installations have 2 or 3 pumps responding to fire alarms. Don't think so !!!

[bittenyakka]

isn't one point of a booster/hydrant system so you can in theory fight a fire in a large building with less appliances.

Not sure about numbers of crew tho

[Zippy]

P P Snake...a lot of Fixed alarms, dont necesseraily have booster systems,  just alarms.  So its up to first arriving appliance to really tough it out...awaiting further backup if its a goer...

And its really up to Comcen to make the appropriate response to send 2-3 pumps to a fire alarm....not relying on a single brigade response.  If you only page one brigade to a fire alarm...8/10 they will only roll one appliance..sadly due to the lack of response to it.

[pumprescue]

ERRR are you telling me that all areas including rural areas that have installations have 2 or 3 pumps responding to fire alarms. Don't think so !!!

Did I say that, I am saying that our response plans are set up because we do. Its not my fault we have appliances able to boost and fight fires. Why would I leave my first arrival pumper at the booster when the second arriving appliance is capable? If I was in some area that only has 24's then I would probably need all of them on the booster to be able to get water, but I don't so we do it our way. I hope this course allows for those of us that have been doing this for a long time, and with great success, some of us as a fulltime job as well, to be able to adapt to the equipment we have.

But it is good to see something being developed, as none of us in CFS have had formal training, usually its picked up as we go or those of us that are fortunate to get formal training in our employment pass it on to those not so fortunate.

How about CFS also teach people to respond in more than the captains ute/group car or all these alarms set up with 1 appliance brigades responding on their own, or a non BA crew wondering around hoping its nothing, or taking a phone call from the premises (that might in fact be a hoax) and not responding at all.

[SA Firey]

CFS has SOP 4.5 related to Automatic Fire Alarms and states what appliances go where 1st arrival goes to the FIP and the 2nd to the booster, or closest water source.

Any additional appliances shall be positioned or staged at the direction of the Incident Controller

Contrary to popular belief not all CFS brigades are dumb filtered and have been responding to alarms for years.As has been said there are many of us who either work in that area or are dual service members so we know what to do.

[RescueHazmat]

isn't one point of a booster/hydrant system so you can in theory fight a fire in a large building with less appliances.

Not sure about numbers of crew tho

Not really. However less appliances would come about as you would need lesser sources of water if you are boosting correctly.

In my attempt to describe this in the simplest of terms.. Boosting the system/ring mains gives sustained (and often increased) water flow/supply to appliances / lines operating on the hydrants which come off the boosted system.

For example.. - Installation 'A' has a large fire. 8 appliances are operating off 6 hydrants at the complex. Usually this significant increase in supply/demand would reduce the overal flow/supply of the mains (the old term, sucking them dry). - However by boosting the system/ring mains you are putting more water into the system (at pressure), and allowing the hydrants to sustain the required flow/supply to the appliances needing water..

Thats the simplest way I could try and explain it a 11.30pm.. - I will probably come up with a more technical method in the morning.

[SA Firey]

isn't one point of a booster/hydrant system so you can in theory fight a fire in a large building with less appliances.

Not sure about numbers of crew tho

Not really. However less appliances would come about as you would need lesser sources of water if you are boosting correctly.

In my attempt to describe this in the simplest of terms.. Boosting the system/ring mains gives sustained (and often increased) water flow/supply to appliances / lines operating on the hydrants which come off the boosted system.

For example.. - Installation 'A' has a large fire. 8 appliances are operating off 6 hydrants at the complex. Usually this significant increase in supply/demand would reduce the overal flow/supply of the mains (the old term, sucking them dry). - However by boosting the system/ring mains you are putting more water into the system (at pressure), and allowing the hydrants to sustain the required flow/supply to the appliances needing water..

Thats the simplest way I could try and explain it a 11.30pm.. - I will probably come up with a more technical method in the morning.

Good example of that is Resource Co at Wingfield, has a ring main hydrant system boosted by appliances.

[P P Snake]

Pumprescue

Seems to me your brigade and group are doing the right thing in terms of Fire alarms. Just because someone wrote " first appliance should go straight to booster" doesn't mean it complies to all brigades. Some brigades that are still only doing single response need to be aware that parking at the front door isn't always the best thing to do. Some brigades have to wait 25-30min for a second appliance to roll up. God bless the people that are doing the right thing, there needs to be more of you

[Alan J]

Pumprescue

Seems to me your brigade and group are doing the right thing in terms of Fire alarms. Just because someone wrote " first appliance should go straight to booster" doesn't mean it complies to all brigades. Some brigades that are still only doing single response need to be aware that parking at the front door isn't always the best thing to do. Some brigades have to wait 25-30min for a second appliance to roll up. God bless the people that are doing the right thing, there needs to be more of you

Dumb question...
WHICH ONLY APPLIES TO PREMISES WHERE FIP & BOOSTER POINT ARE A LONG WAY APART.
CBD FIRIES WHO CAN'T IMAGINE BOOSTER & FIP BEING MORE THAN 30M APART - BUTT OUT.

So, on arrival, commit the appliance to the booster, add a big delay while OIC & primary crew traipse 300M to the FIP, lugging hose, branch, entry tools, wearing BA &
PBI Gold on a 30degC day. On arrival at FIP, find that the sensor is a single smoke
detector another 200M down the property, collect gear & wits & start hiking again...

Is it not better to find out what you are dealing with first (go to the FIP as fast as
possible) =then= make decisions about where to position appliance/s and people ?

We don't have any boosters on our patch, but making decisions from a position of
knowledge seems to me a more rational approach under these circumstances.

If not, why not ?

cheers

[tft]

First appliance should go to the FIP to find out what is happening.
Second appliance should go to the booster.
I have been to a few jobs were the first arrvial appliance goes to the FIP and on arrival we have found that the fire is out, but the rooms are full of smoke with residents still inside. So other oncoming appliance are directed to the smoke logged rooms to help with getting people out.

[mattb]

As TFT rightly stated - the first appliance has to go to the FIP to find out what is going on - obviously if there is visible smoke then you go straight to the fire and don't even worry about the FIP initially. Any subsequent appliances can be directed to the booster or to the fire. A single appliance sitting at a booster is no good if you don't actually have any one putting out the fire and conducting rescue etc.

If you are in a brigade where a single appliance response to an FIP is considered appropriate then you need to really look at the impacts of what you are doing. You cannot assume that every fire alarm incident is always going to be a false alarm, you can't commit a BA crew to offensive fire-fighting if you don't have a BA backup crew on site - you might be lucky enough to have four BA operators and four sets on that one truck but I think that would be the exception rather than the rule for many of these brigades.

I know that there are some remote areas where backup is a long way away and I can understand that, but I also know of many brigades in Region 1 and 2 that are surrounded by support that still only turnout one appliance with two people on board to an FIP call (happened yesterday - one truck two people).

Group officers and the Regions shouldn't be signing off on the WFAM response plans that only respond one brigade, and if you don't have a full crew then respond another brigade - it's pretty simple.

[bittenyakka]

True matt

But i will point out (again) that all the brigade within half an hour from the city have day crew issues sometimes (often to much).  So it is reasonable for a bridge to roll with a crew of 2 but get another brigade as well. 

(in my area all fips are a dual response to start with)

[oz fire]

  At last an official course, that said with all of the other urban style training that CFS has offered over the years (and led the state in - live fire, compartment, tactical leadership etc) it was only a matter of time before a course on boosters and FIP's was written. Well done to the STC team.

Despite some of the other comments, a number of brigades and groups in the state have been attending FIP's, boosters etc for years - with training by the installers at the time, with linkages to their pre planning.

They are nothing new in CFS and oveer the years, with CFS having input into the systems (via Mike Gent and others) they would work with brigades to ensure they were aware of the systems, its operations and the fire fighter interface.

[rescue5271]

When a hydrant or sprinkler booster system is installed it is the job of the CFS staff to come along and instruct the brigade how it works,and the workings of a system.I have been to one of these sessions and the commanderdid a great job  but he did also point out that a CFS 24 or 34 was not going to give you the flow rate's that are required for such systems.. having said that if that is all you have then it will still work but not to the full flow rate that you want..Some brigades do have a tool that site's in their shed that they could also use and that would be a large size trailer pump....This would only work on a small system...

[SA- Private- Contractor]

REMOVED 18-07-08

[Cameron Yelland]

A possible idea may be for all services to be trained in the use of 2 in, 2 out and 4 in and 4 out boosters in BFF1

Yeah not a good idea.  Its hard enough for most people to take in all the info from BFF1.

Pumps, boosters, FIP's etc is something for the experienced firefighter (5+ years) to look after.  BFF1 is designed to get the new firefighter on the end of the hose.

[SA- Private- Contractor]

REMOVED 18-07-08

[rescue5271]

Have to agree with cam,......

[SA- Private- Contractor]

Withdrawn due to circumstances 190708

[bittenyakka]

hahaha that would be next to impossible.

First we need to get a way to keep members coming and being interested before we try to boggle their minds with boosters etc.

[SA- Private- Contractor]

Withdrawn due to circumstances 190708

[49194]

Nice display pic SAPC. - Where was that taken?

[bittenyakka]

yeah thats pretty true... hows cfs going about getting younger members?

depends on the area mine is struggling.

this topic could warrent a new thread