Urban Pumpers

[Fox Mulder]

But when has CFS taken any notice of what the Volunteers want for the risk that the brigade has???

Because some vols are clueless to what they requie to acctually look after their area

Its not always a we want world, need to justify why you would like it, and not just sook and winge that we want one cause the brigade up the road has one

[CFS_Firey]

Makes relay pumping a bit hard especially if the appliance you are relaying to doesnt have any 64mm to give you

Wouldn't that be a fault of the appliance you're pumping to, not yours?  Should we be carrying a spare set of rescue gear for the appliances not stowed with it too?

[chook]

Right on Fox - bout time some take a reality pill and settle!

Makes relay pumping a bit hard especially if the appliance you are relaying to doesnt have any 64mm to give you

Wouldn't that be a fault of the appliance you're pumping to, not yours?  Should we be carrying a spare set of rescue gear for the appliances not stowed with it too?

Yep that sounds like a great idea - not! Great comment
cheers

[6739264]

So then, dear friends, what happens in a long relay pump to a monitor or an aerial applaince at the end? If you're at the start of a relay, you're using your 64mm hose for delivery of water to the next pump, and if not draughting, your 64mm is also connection to the water supply point.

Then the question is, how much hose is enough?

[bittenyakka]

are we talking about a 34 or  a pumper/ aerial/ something urban enough to carry a monitor because if it is that latter then i would expect that they would have stacks of 64mm hose. 

[Alan J]

Another great urban myth , a standard 34 0r 24 , all of the units that have been produced by the various manufacturers over the last couple of years have all been different in their construction.

The Don MacArthur 24/34's - the first & last truly "standard CFS appliances". 
Sheesh that was a long time ago !!

And them some pedant comes along & points out that standardisation is the enemy of innovation. 

So which is more important ?
And how does one innovate while maintaining standards ?...

  (at this point I run away & hide  )

[6739264]

Simple.

Standardise a big batch, then make a prototype truck, send it around to brigades for feedback, give it to a busy brigade to trial. If it looks good then the next standardised batch becomes that. And so on and so forth!

In the meantime, innovation can be retrofitted.

I'd love to see the appliance replacement logic currently implemented. I would have thought that there would be 5-10 brigade that would be getting all the new stuff (yes, the busy brigades that actually do work) with everything filtering down from them. In reality it seems to be quite the opposite.

[pete]

The thing that im not happy with is the fact that my Brigade was told by Region One Commander/Officer/Brigade Captain that except this Appliance for a couple of years and we are then in line for a purpose built Urban/Rural Appliance.Guess what two or more years later we have been told they arent looking at that till later on.Since then we have lost membership and care factor has gone down hill,so good on ya CFS for saving a buck and making your lives easier building 20 of this??

[SA Firey]

I have to agree the standardisation of the 24/34's of the late Don McArthur era will be the only appliances we ever see "standard"

 

[pete]

I have to agree,each area has its own needs

[pumprescue]

The thing that im not happy with is the fact that my Brigade was told by Region One Commander/Officer/Brigade Captain that except this Appliance for a couple of years and we are then in line for a purpose built Urban/Rural Appliance.Guess what two or more years later we have been told they arent looking at that till later on.Since then we have lost membership and care factor has gone down hill,so good on ya CFS for saving a buck and making your lives easier building 20 of this??

Anyone thats been in CFS longer than 5 years knows that CFS is full of crap and will tell you anything to get you to accept a truck, then once you have it in the station its all over.

[SA Firey]

When the government stop giving us second rate equipment they might retain some of the volunteers

[loopylou]

I'm with you there PumpRescue, CFS management (or some of it) is full of it. I heard from reliable sources a year ago that a replacement appliance was on the way to replace our ageing 2-4, and a year later.... nothing. And secondly, when talking to a Regional Officer not long ago about getting a 2/3-4P to help in dealing with the multiple B risks in our area instead of a 2/3-4, i was told that it wasn't an option because we don't have any boosters to use it with. While i concede that this is true at the moment, i also see that it will occur soon on at least one site, and at the moment i am looking at the other options a 2/3-4P gives us - Clark mast for better lighting, user friendly BA mounts, Dual cab, blah blah blah blah etc, oh and by the way - an underweight truck that doesn't lean to one side and is safe to drive and doesn't need repair work every two months, and that the crew have confidence and feel safe in. Oh and by the way, how about making the region spares a bit more up to the task of being used as a spare appliance instead of being the disgraceful looking, and fitted out, and equipped, pieces of turd that they are.

Anyway i've had my whinge and i'm happier now.

[pete]

Good on you guys,the more we speak up the more they have to listen,after all we are the ones that have to work with this scheiße.The MFS wouldnt put up with it so why should we?

[Cameron Yelland]

Intresting they say you must have a booster before you can have a 34P.....  As we all know 95% of booster systems arent capable of being boosted by a 34P!

Think its time the vollies started getting more of a say on vehicle design and placement in the state!

[Shiner]

"Think its time the vollies started getting more of a say on vehicle design and placement in the state!"


Regarding the above, while I agree with the sentiment, would surely prove to be completely unmanageable in practice - how long would the consultation process be? There would never be 100% agreement between some people on one or more items so someone would have to make a choice which would lead to some people taking the 'I said something but no-one listened to me' line etc etc

Many volunteers would also have no idea on how to take the wider picture on other areas needs (and I mean needs, not wants) and all would be vying for the best equipment (which is fair enough), but there will never be enough to go around and someone somewhere will end up with an truck which is 'older than someone elses' or doesn't have an X or a Y on it etc.

Let's face it, even if substantial funding was to be found to upgrade everything now, how long before half of it was ready/built/provided to the brigades, by then, half of them would want something else/newer/different......

I'm certainly not defending the current ways of working and there is certainly room for improvement, but opening the system to every man and his dog would be even more stifling to the production and supply of equipment??

[Zippy]

Intresting they say you must have a booster before you can have a 34P.....  As we all know 95% of booster systems arent capable of being boosted by a 34P!

haha, very right camo!  34P is merely a 34 'Premium'...Better Scene Lighting, more stowage locker space (still, not enough), and a few other improvements.

more on the "better scene lighting"...quite sure that it helps with the OHS, so wondering why plain 34's are missing out on it.

[pete]

Lets face it,saftey doesnt come first,money does.In my opinion,rear mounted pumps put crews in the path of traffic,not good.The cheaper hose reels do not release easy like the hanney ones,so by the time you get the hose out youve lost alot of energy.The BA cylinders are bad for our backs,way too heavy when we could use lighter ones.The Cabs are very high and the centre of gravity is more dangerous than a proper designed fire appliance.Come on CFS you did better in the nineties.

[Cameron Yelland]

"Think its time the vollies started getting more of a say on vehicle design and placement in the state!"


Regarding the above, while I agree with the sentiment, would surely prove to be completely unmanageable in practice - how long would the consultation process be? There would never be 100% agreement between some people on one or more items so someone would have to make a choice which would lead to some people taking the 'I said something but no-one listened to me' line etc etc

Many volunteers would also have no idea on how to take the wider picture on other areas needs (and I mean needs, not wants) and all would be vying for the best equipment (which is fair enough), but there will never be enough to go around and someone somewhere will end up with an truck which is 'older than someone elses' or doesn't have an X or a Y on it etc.

Let's face it, even if substantial funding was to be found to upgrade everything now, how long before half of it was ready/built/provided to the brigades, by then, half of them would want something else/newer/different......

I'm certainly not defending the current ways of working and there is certainly room for improvement, but opening the system to every man and his dog would be even more stifling to the production and supply of equipment??

Obviously i should of explained myself better.

I think a committee (1 staff and 4 vollies) within each region to design and determine where new appliances go within their own region would be a good idea.  we are all adults and im sure those on the committee are mature enough to see their region as a whole and not be their to benefit themselves.

[rescue5271]

Sounds good Cam,but lets just make it clear it should be active firefighters who get on these committees not some group officer or retired member who has not been on a fire appliance in 10 years....

[chook]

The high centre of gravity on the Isuzu's 750's is because its a Heavy 4x4 (sory if thats stating the obvious).
The way I see it you guys what everything - 4x4 capability, large weight carrying capacity, an urban pumper capabilty, ergonomically friendly, an ability to carry a wide range of equipment & a rural appliance!
This is a very tall order indeed, infact you are talking three vehicles (or maybe 4) in one & you want them everywhere!
Not sure of the cost but it would be huge & commercially there isn't anything available off the shelf that meets all of the requirements (Urban appliance, Rescue & Rural Appliance) in one package that suits everyone's ideas.
And Cam your idea on a vehicle/ equipment committee is great - if the right people can agree & have the time to have all of the meetings required (we have a vehicle committee - good people but haven't met in a while).
So hopefully you guys can work out this issue as it seems to be a major problem.
cheers

[Zippy]

The way I see it you guys what everything - 4x4 capability, large weight carrying capacity, an urban pumper capabilty, ergonomically friendly, an ability to carry a wide range of equipment & a rural appliance!

your spot on chook  but do "we" as the fireground firefighters, want this? or would we prefer to have more specialised units.

• Keep the traditional rural 14 and 34's.

• Develop the 34P into a 2WD 2500L High stowage capacity pumping appliance.

• and of course a 9000L tanker.

[car31]

Agree with Zippy, need trucks designed for the jobs they do. At the station I am based at we have 3 trucks, a 24p, 34 and a tanker. We are mainly an urban brigade but do have vast grass lands and hills areas also, I would see the right mix of appliance would be an urban pumper for our Urban area and 34 and tanker for the other, I see this as being a good mix. The 24P is just not up to the job of stowage and pumping capacity for Urban firefighting in my opinion.
Other brigades would be suited to a 34P or 24P etc, just need to look at specific needs of brigades rather than a 1 size fits all approach.

[Zippy]

just need to look at specific needs of brigades rather than a 1 size fits all approach

yeh i agree, but it would be acceptibly impossible to cater for everyones needs as that would require a lot of micro managing, meanwhile you could offer a range of items that are customisable to your needs.  I.e  are you hazmat or are you rcr?   A good aim (not the only one) should be to reduce the extra time and effort required by us firefighters on stuff that could be done during manufacturing before delivery.

[jaff]

Sounds good Cam,but lets just make it clear it should be active firefighters who get on these committees not some group officer or retired member who has not been on a fire appliance in 10 years....

Yeh yeh thats right ,because once you become an officer of senior rank or a groupy all your brains get sucked out ,your years of experience evaporate into nothing more than unintelligeable,disjointed thoughts and your no good for anything other than sitting in a air-conditioned vehicle or base ,making dumbass decisions that will ultimately lead to the demise of the whole organisation!!
Or maybe the more senior appointees are a little bit more used to divorcing themselves from being brigade centric and taking a holistic approach to the needs of the brigades/groups/state as a whole, either way you will never please everyone with a single vehicle design,but a good start would be to iron out the quality control issues before delivery.