Urban Pumpers

[pete]

Does anyone know when the CFS is going to address the need to supply such appliances instead of giving us huge 34ps to get around the narrow streets?

[CFS_Firey]

Maybe once the new Burnside Pumper proves itself to be fantastic?  ..or maybe never...

[pete]

If they provided the correct equipment for the application then maybe the vollies wouldnt loose interest,i know that since we got issued with the one size fits all appliance people dont give a filtered

[Cameron Yelland]

care to elaborate a bit more?  hard to agree with you when we dont know the full story.

[pete]

They currently are providing 34ps to be a appliance to do everything,im not going to name our brigade if you cant guess but we had better technology in 1986,its just too easy for them upstairs to build 20 off this or 20 of that and try and make it fit for everyone.Sometimes looking at the bigger picture is better than being cheap.

[rescue5271]

I think they only way we will see Pumpers is when there is a take over of CFS 34p and 24p are not pumpers but a part time pumper.....

[Zippy]

I think they only way we will see Pumpers is when there is a take over of CFS 34p and 24p are not pumpers but a part time pumper.....

ding ding ding, we have a winner!

yeh i agree pete, there seems to be a continual effort to create a "everything-in-one" truck.

Personally, my belief is there needs to be 5 specific fire/hazmat/rescue tender's built by the CFS:
Pumper        - Pumper (meeting the same standard as Burnside Pumper)
24,34         - 4WD Tanker
14            - 4WD Quick Attack
Hazmat/Rescue - Custom Build Hazmat AND/OR Rescue Tender
BWC           - 4WD Bulk water carrier

no more of this squeezing every ounce of equipment on a single truck = overweight truck :)

[Fox Mulder]

care to elaborate a bit more?  hard to agree with you when we dont know the full story.

Thats odd you say that, you seem willing to jump to conclusions illinformed on other occasions

[Cameron Yelland]

care to elaborate a bit more?  hard to agree with you when we dont know the full story.

Thats odd you say that, you seem willing to jump to conclusions illinformed on other occasions

What the filtered is your problem?  If i have an idea about a subject i will comment. It may be the wrong comment but thats not my problem.  Its up to others to straighten it out if my comments aren't correct.  I have no problem admitting im wrong if proven to be so.

[Zippy]

woah woah woah, guys... peace :)

[Mike]

Question, Discuss, Inform and Educate..... Ongoing process... lets keep it that way...

[tft]

Urban Pumpers = Urban Myth

[gasman]

As an uneducated person in the ways of firefighting vehicles, can you tell me the difference between all of the aforementioned appliances, what do the MFS drive and are their vehicles suitable for a kind of cross over vehicle between urban firefighting and country firefighting?

Go easy on the criticism, i honestly have no idea of the differences

[6739264]

Wow, its not like there are pages and pages of discussion already on this topic.

Does anyone know when the CFS is going to address the need to supply such appliances instead of giving us huge 34ps to get around the narrow streets?

Its got very little to do with the size of appliances, and everything to do with the risks your brigade covers. If you can't get there with a 34P chances are an urban pumper will not fit either, unless you have a 12 style light urban pumper.

As has been said time and time again, not every station NEEDS a pumper. There are a handful of stations that NEED a Heavy Urban pumper, and about a billion other stations that think because they have some houses in their area, then have to have a top of the line super duper pumper.

For the majority of the work CFS brigades do 34P's and 24P's are ok. Not great, but they can get the job done. This is of course not to suggest in anyway shape or form that brigades should shut up and take what they are given, or that the CFS should not continuously look at appliance R&D.

yeh i agree pete, there seems to be a continual effort to create a "everything-in-one" truck.

Personally, my belief is there needs to be 5 specific fire/hazmat/rescue tender's built by the CFS:
Pumper        - Pumper (meeting the same standard as Burnside Pumper)
24,34         - 4WD Tanker
14            - 4WD Quick Attack
Hazmat/Rescue - Custom Build Hazmat AND/OR Rescue Tender
BWC           - 4WD Bulk water carrier

no more of this squeezing every ounce of equipment on a single truck = overweight truck :)

Theres nothing wrong with an all-in-one truck. In many areas it makes sense to cover as many bases as possible, where there is a shortage of personnel or large distances between neighbouring brigades.

Have a look at SAMFS Pumpers (not to mention the pumpers of most other paid fire services in the country) they carry basic Rescue and Hazmat stowage as well as their Urban stowage to allwo them to deal with multiple types of incidents without always needing a specialist appliance.

If the CFS took a look at the chassis that they bought as well as the locker and general stowage setup of the truck, it would be more than possible to add further equipment to trucks without forcing them to be overweight or sacrificing basic stowage.

What would be great would be for CFS to have a modular based system for trucks build ups. Have a few basic chassis, then have a totally modular system for lockers, pumps, extra lighting etc etc. That way, for example, Brigade A and Brigade B both are rural brigades, yet brigade A does Rescue and Brigade B does Hazmat, then they could have the same 4x4 truck, yet a different locker build up for the different gear. Although this too would negate the bulk purchasing power of ordering 50 standard spec 34's.

[Zippy]

What would be great would be for CFS to have a modular based system for trucks build ups. Have a few basic chassis, then have a totally modular system for lockers, pumps, extra lighting etc etc. That way, for example, Brigade A and Brigade B both are rural brigades, yet brigade A does Rescue and Brigade B does Hazmat, then they could have the same 4x4 truck, yet a different locker build up for the different gear. Although this too would negate the bulk purchasing power of ordering 50 standard spec 34's.

I like your thinking Numbers ;)

[jaff]

Another great urban myth , a standard 34 0r 24 :-D , all of the units that have been produced by the various manufacturers over the last couple of years have all been different in their construction. CFS now needs to look at all of the afore mentioned appliances,gather feedback from us the volies that have to work with the appliances,workout what features work ,what doesnt, then give a full schematic design out when tendering ,so that no matter which manufacturer quotes ,its apples for apples,with approved workable systems.
Aaahhh a dream, a Standard appliance ,with tried and tested features, quality controlled and a tied into warranty.
But wait you want more, a modular system that can accomodate RCR or HAZMAT, why yessir we can do that,because its just a matter of changing some of your side lockers to locate your new equipment as the variations to SOFC for brigades change. HEELL we will even throw in a set of Ginzu steak knives/recipricating saw to sweeten the deal :wink:

[rescue5271]

But when has CFS taken any notice of what the Volunteers want for the risk that the brigade has???

[bajdas]

Another great urban myth , a standard 34 0r 24 :-D , all of the units that have been produced by the various manufacturers over the last couple of years have all been different in their construction. CFS now needs to look at all of the afore mentioned appliances,gather feedback from us the volies that have to work with the appliances,workout what features work ,what doesnt, then give a full schematic design out when tendering ,so that no matter which manufacturer quotes ,its apples for apples,with approved workable systems.
Aaahhh a dream, a Standard appliance ,with tried and tested features, quality controlled and a tied into warranty.
But wait you want more, a modular system that can accomodate RCR or HAZMAT, why yessir we can do that,because its just a matter of changing some of your side lockers to locate your new equipment as the variations to SOFC for brigades change. HEELL we will even throw in a set of Ginzu steak knives/recipricating saw to sweeten the deal :wink:

I agree with the ideal,,, but how would you cope with changes in technology ? (eg pumps, lights, rescue, etc) ? Would you wait to evaluate the new technology before changing the standard specification, which means you would always be a few years behind current technology ?

[jaff]

Another great urban myth , a standard 34 0r 24 :-D , all of the units that have been produced by the various manufacturers over the last couple of years have all been different in their construction. CFS now needs to look at all of the afore mentioned appliances,gather feedback from us the volies that have to work with the appliances,workout what features work ,what doesnt, then give a full schematic design out when tendering ,so that no matter which manufacturer quotes ,its apples for apples,with approved workable systems.
Aaahhh a dream, a Standard appliance ,with tried and tested features, quality controlled and a tied into warranty.
But wait you want more, a modular system that can accomodate RCR or HAZMAT, why yessir we can do that,because its just a matter of changing some of your side lockers to locate your new equipment as the variations to SOFC for brigades change. HEELL we will even throw in a set of Ginzu steak knives/recipricating saw to sweeten the deal :wink:

I agree with the ideal,,, but how would you cope with changes in technology ? (eg pumps, lights, rescue, etc) ? Would you wait to evaluate the new technology before changing the standard specification, which means you would always be a few years behind current technology ?

Geez bajdas, (pauses whilst looking a his feet nervously pushing dirt around) I dont want to be the one to break the news to you, ........but we are, with some exceptions, a few years behind current technology! its a not having enough money thing or something like that.
What we may need to embrace is a set time say 6 years,between design modifications so we can have some consistency in the fleet, who knows it might happen, one day soon :wink:

[SA Firey]

From the appliances we have been supplied with so far, in my opinion the best build was the 2006 Isuzu FTS 750 34's, with only one problem with stowage, 3 x 64mm hose yet 4 x 38mm :-o

[Alan (Big Al)]

From the appliances we have been supplied with so far, in my opinion the best build was the 2006 Isuzu FTS 750 34's, with only one problem with stowage, 3 x 64mm hose yet 4 x 38mm :-o

Ours isn't too bad except for ongoing electrical issues ( that seem to never be completely fixed) and the second hand siren installed in it crapped itself.

[bajdas]

Geez bajdas, (pauses whilst looking a his feet nervously pushing dirt around) I dont want to be the one to break the news to you, ........but we are, with some exceptions, a few years behind current technology! its a not having enough money thing or something like that.
What we may need to embrace is a set time say 6 years,between design modifications so we can have some consistency in the fleet, who knows it might happen, one day soon :wink:

Geez Jaff....I'm NOT a firefighter so I don't know the technology differences in pumps.......   :evil:  :lol:  :lol:

[6739264]

From the appliances we have been supplied with so far, in my opinion the best build was the 2006 Isuzu FTS 750 34's, with only one problem with stowage, 3 x 64mm hose yet 4 x 38mm :-o

That sucks! More of the hose that you use, less of the stuff you dont! Terrible!

[SA Firey]

Makes relay pumping a bit hard especially if the appliance you are relaying to doesnt have any 64mm to give you :?

[bittenyakka]

so what do yu actauly have on the 34 now? we have 4x64 and 4 or 5 38 on our 24?