Author Topic: More UFU crap  (Read 25926 times)

Offline safireservice

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More UFU crap
« on: January 26, 2008, 09:18:21 PM »
THE United Firefighters Union has demanded an inquiry into the handling of a $20 million blaze it claims was "bungled" by the Country Fire Service.

More than 350 staff were left without work when a blaze gutted Port Wakefield's Primo abattoir. Most staff were later redeployed.
About 80 volunteer firefighters tried to save the abattoir when fire broke out in the offal room on February 23 last year but they were forced back by a toxic ammonia leak.

The union says the Country Fire Service waited more than an hour for its own specially trained HAZMAT crews to arrive from Burnside, rather than ask the Metropolitan Fire Service for help.

Similarly qualified MFS crews were stationed much closer – at Salisbury, Elizabeth, Angle Vale, Prospect and Port Adelaide – but were not called, the union claims.

Union president Bill Jamieson this week said the CFS knew local brigades could not cope with a fire at the abattoir, but ignored official warnings.

He said the bungle had been covered up and he demanded an inquiry into the matter.

He claimed the union had "reliable sources" who said an internal CFS report was prepared before the blaze, instructing CFS hierarchy that a fire at the abattoir would be beyond the capabilities of local volunteers.

"It was a bungle," Mr Jamieson said.

"Allegedly a risk management assessment of Primo Meats had been conducted . . . and was ignored.

"However, information won't come through whistleblowers or even an FoI (Freedom of Information) application.

"An independent inquiry is needed otherwise the mistakes of Port Wakefield will remain covered up and the emergency service won't be forced to change."

Anger over the abattoir fire follows criticism of the CFS for refusing MFS resources when a bushfire tore through Tulka, near Port Lincoln, in 2001, destroying 15 homes and forcing residents to flee into the water. The agency also was condemned for waiting too long to call for help in fighting the deadly Black Tuesday bushfire in 2005.

Documents seen by the Sunday Mail said the CFS tackled the Primo blaze without a map of the facility – even though standard procedure required a "pre-plan" of a major structure, including maps, locations of hydrants and even keys to access the building.

"Primo staff did not offer maps of the complex early," a CFS report said.

"These were provided only after the firefighting operations were complete."

Brenton Keen, a spokesman for SAFECOM – a new co-ordination centre for the CFS, MFS and SES – said the CFS responded very quickly to the Port Wakefield blaze and there was no indication MFS support would have helped save the building.

"The first vehicle was on site within four minutes," he said.

"The first crew assessed the risk and called for additional resources."

Mr Keen denied there had been no "pre-plan" of the Primo site but admitted it could have been done better.

"A multi-agency debrief is routinely conducted as part of the continued improvement of our processes and, in this case, we held a deputy chief officers forum," he said.

"As a direct result of the Primo fire, we held this forum to discuss this particular incident.

"There was a CFS pre-plan but these days, we would get the three agencies together – MFS, CFS and SES – and plan together for any significant structural fire."

The Sunday Mail asked to speak to CFS chief officer Euan Ferguson and MFS chief officer Grant Lupton, but Mr Keen said he would speak on their behalf.

Mr Keen said the new SAFECOM system, implemented last year, would prevent any problems between the fire fighting organisations.

 

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Offline Sarge

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 09:51:42 PM »
Very Interesting where was this found?

Offline Crownie24

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 09:56:31 PM »
Maybe we should just surrender to the METS and have all CFS stations renamed MFS stations and manned 24/7 by mets, yeah and then all CFS voly's should where shirts thats say "I was a CFS member and I'm Incompetent".
That will make those UFU toss pots satisified.

P.S: All of the above is sarcasm!!! Dont take it personally...
P.P.S: I understand that not all mets are anti-CFS
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 10:12:46 PM by Crownie24 »

Offline safireservice

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 10:26:04 PM »
Very Interesting where was this found?
It will more than likely be in the Sunday Mail.
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Offline Katrina

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 11:09:26 PM »
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23114996-5006301,00.html
Adelaide Now is running it tonight so am sure will be in Sunday Mail
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Offline Pipster

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2008, 11:50:19 PM »
I know very little about the Primo fire, so I don't wish to comment on that...but perhaps if the UFU are demanding answers to questions about that job, then questions should be asked of MFS as to why MFS crews from Metro Adelaide were sent to a fire at the Baxter Detention centre, out of Pt Augusta, (which caused extensive damage to the complex), with those appliances & crews driving past several CFS stations, which were equipped with the gear & crews and were never called......

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 06:02:32 AM »
Wasn't there a similar fire , with similar damage, in Sydney that the NSWFB had similar trouble with ?

How did that one go Billy Boy ?


I am sure CFS could have done a million things better, but responding a couple of MFS pumps wasn't gonna save it ? But if CFS had the same standard of equipment as MFS, well, yeah, interesting, a few clapped out 24's and a wanna be light pumper, don't know if I would be so keen to have a multi-million dollar factory in CFS area, not because of the people, but because of what was looking after me, I would at least have VERY good insurance.

Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 08:03:35 AM »
I know very little about the Primo fire, so I don't wish to comment on that...but perhaps if the UFU are demanding answers to questions about that job, then questions should be asked of MFS as to why MFS crews from Metro Adelaide were sent to a fire at the Baxter Detention centre, out of Pt Augusta, (which caused extensive damage to the complex), with those appliances & crews driving past several CFS stations, which were equipped with the gear & crews and were never called......

Pip

Well said Pip if the UFU wanna start playing the blame game perhaps they need to first get their facts straight and think of the backlash they will get as the CFS would demand answers as to why MFS crews were called to Baxter and other places for fires and the CFS werent even paged

 
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Offline bittenyakka

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 08:49:11 AM »


Union president Bill Jamieson this week said the CFS knew local brigades could not cope with a fire at the abattoir, but ignored official warnings.


What does he define as local brigades?  Does this mean they will scream KI couldn't deal with it's risk. take the paint fire on south road i know MFS "local" brigades weren't the only ones there. every brigade/ station in the state has some part of risk in their primary area that they can't deal with on their own.

Offline SA Firey

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 09:09:50 AM »
Before you start slinging scheiße Bill,remember who comes to man your stations when you are under resourced, thats right the CFS have the resources to man all your stations and then some. :-P

What would you do without us eh :evil:
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Offline safireservice

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 09:15:11 AM »



 but responding a couple of MFS pumps wasn't gonna save it ? 
No it wouldnt have considering the time it would have taken them to get there.
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Offline tft

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 09:15:52 AM »
The UFU need to be very careful, we could all tell stories about  when incidents have problems. Lets work together to fix the problem before running to the teacher and telling.
I remember a shopping complex a few years ago that got out of control due to a major stuff up from a fire service person. Lets see the UFU talk about this then.

Offline safireservice

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 09:18:35 AM »

But if CFS had the same standard of equipment as MFS,
Ah yes but we do. We got a list of things carried on a standard MFS pump and the only thing we didnt have was a thermal imaging camera.
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Offline 6739264

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2008, 10:10:29 AM »
All fires tend to be major cockups. Both volunteer and paid fire services are notoriously terrible at larger and more complex incidents.

As long as correct procedure was followed, there shouldn't be an issue. If the CFS did wait around for Burnside, without turning out closer resources, then that is an issue that needs to be looked at. People don't see a fire service, they still see MFS/CFS/Regions/Groups/Brigades and the apparent boundaries between them.

Ah yes but we do. We got a list of things carried on a standard MFS pump and the only thing we didnt have was a thermal imaging camera.

Go find me two CFS pumps that are stowed remotely close to an MFS pump and I'll believe you.
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Offline pete

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2008, 10:15:40 AM »
I dont think Bill has got long to go before he retires

Offline Cameron Yelland

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 10:32:49 AM »
One thing i am concerned about from that article is the fact that the UFU think they should have responded MFS to the ammonia leak rather than Burnside.  It would seem the UFU are going around in circles - wasn't there an article on the UFU website not long ago saying they are short staffed to look after Adelaide yet they wanted to send trucks to Port Wakefield?  Bit hypocritical dont you think?

Another thing business's need to realise is, if they plan to build in the sticks then they cant expect to be looked after by a fully staffed 24/7 fire station with million dollar equipment.  Its just not justifiable!
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Offline jaff

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 10:39:38 AM »
I agree with numbers, Every fire that ive been too , or been in charge of, when looked at in the clear light of day we could have of done better at.
Incident debriefs are not intended to be "blame games" they are a way of bettering ourselves ,identifying problems and putting measures in place so that we dont repeat the mistakes, "lessons learned".
CFS might need to revisit ,some of there procedures as would MFS occasionaly, this is best done in a private and not played out in the media ,once Pandoras box is opened its very hard to shut, UFU be careful no one is without fault!!!!

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Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2008, 10:50:30 AM »

But if CFS had the same standard of equipment as MFS,
Ah yes but we do. We got a list of things carried on a standard MFS pump and the only thing we didnt have was a thermal imaging camera.

I think the original quote was more directed at the actual appliances them selves..

uniden

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2008, 11:07:35 AM »
Before we all get carried away , was there a long delay before more specialised appliances were called from further away?? I heard that the initial few appliances there had a severe shortage of BA qualified people. Any truth to that.

1909205 20:50:22 23-02-07 FLEX-A    ALPHA  1600  SHQ: *CFSRES: PT WAKEFIELD & BALAKLAVA RESPOND BUILDING FIRE, PRIMO - SNOWTOWN RD, PT WAKEFIELD. FIRE IN THE OFFAL ROOM... < 23/02/2007 20:49:43  -= CFS Balaklava response =-

1908995 00:08:14 24-02-07 FLEX-A    ALPHA  1600  SHQ: CFSRES BURNSIDE RESPOND BUIDLING FIRE, SNOWTOWN RD, PT WAKEFIELD, PRIMO MEAT WORKS, MONITORING EQUIPMENT REQUIRED, P2 > 24/02/2007 12:07:34 AM  -= CFS Burnside response =-
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 11:24:27 AM by uniden »

Offline mack

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2008, 12:19:57 PM »
considering they were responded priority 2 and over 12 hrs after the initial....

im guessing the "specialist equipment" wasnt really gonna make much differance to the overall outcome.


an interesting read none the less....


uniden

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2008, 12:28:33 PM »
more like 3 hours

Offline mack

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2008, 01:35:47 PM »
more like 3 hours

mmm yer i just re-read that....


shouldnt that be in 24hr time? the first response is in 24hr time...

Offline mack

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2008, 01:37:20 PM »
just noticed the pages came from differant computers... might explain it, im guessing one wasnt set on 24hr

Offline safireservice

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2008, 01:38:34 PM »
just noticed the pages came from differant computers... might explain it, im guessing one wasnt set on 24hr
it is 00:08:14, 8 mins past midnight
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Offline safireservice

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Re: More UFU crap
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2008, 01:44:59 PM »
I dont think Bill has got long to go before he retires
Probably his life long dream to close the CFS, and is running out of time?
Must have been a very slow day in the office to put his article together, or there was nothing on Fox?  :-D
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