Volunteer Retention

[uniden]

01:19:16 06-01-08 MNRT MURR RESPOND FIRE ALARM INGHAM, LOT 29 FERRIES MACDONALD RD, MONARTO STH *CFSRES:, FIP ALARM *WFAM*, 06/01/2008 01:17:42

02:21:58 06-01-08 MONARTO 24 P HAS RETURNED TO STATION - CREW STOOD DOWN - ALL THOSE WHO DID NOT RESPOND SHOULD THANK AP AND SP FOR YOUR EXTRA SLEEP CFS Monarto Info

And people wonder why volunteers leave the service. Is it really necesarry to send messages like this at 2 in the morning???

[country kid]

i was thinknig the same thing,

but spose some would consider it a joke!? but i thourght that sort of thing at 2 am in the morning was a bit rude anyway!

[rescue5271]

If you look at the GRN pager site they are filled with these types of message's day and night.I dont know why brigade's and groups do this its a waste of money but is also a pain in the rear when they say xzo pumper has arrived or that xzy pumper is back in station fire out...Is there really any need for this?

[Zippy]

way i see it is the following:

Initial Page from Adel Fire for Dispatch

-Possible Extra information pages from Adelaide Fire or State Air Desk.
-Possible More Crew Requried page.

anything more than that is extra and probably most of it isnt needed.

after all...if u page out a CFSRES twice within 10mins...who ever turns up IS all ur gonna have respond. if u simply dont have enough, wake up an extra brigade im sure they might like to be invited along if its some work to do.

If anyone has a problem with Lack of people responding, the best place to raise it is in front of the brigade in person during Training.

[chook]

yep no need to air your dirty laundry in public. But I agree with the sentiments in  the page though obviously a poor crew response.
Even the returned home pages are a waste.
And why people insist on paging for more crew? You have got what you are gonna get instead call for another brigade.
Finally the guys from SES who insist on paging there ETA or non arrival is beyond me - why not SMS the duty phone?
cheers

[Robert-Robert34]

Maybe sending pager messages via sms to mobile phones would be the way to go i mean no one likes their pager sounding at 2am in the morning for an info message when you can simply sms it instead to members mobile phone numbers 

[uniden]

Still wakes you up Rob. Mobiles have notoriously bad coverage compared to GRN pagers anyhow.

[mack]

i like the idea of paging when the appliance has returned to station...

but dont really agree with the hundreds of pager messages you see daily stating, appliance has responded, appliance is on scene, appliance still on scene, etc etc... some brigades are notorious for this, and it just seems like a waste (perhaps they dont realise how much it costs wvery time we drop a page??)

[Blue]

I think we've covered off on random annoying paging in another thread, but the point is was it really necessary for the brigade to - as chook eloquently states - 'air their dirty laundry' (I like that! Ha ha, yep).

*sigh* at yet another stoopid pager message sent out to make a few volunteers feel guilty and disturb the rest. Dead right Zippy, response should be discussed at training or call a special brigade meeting. Are we adults? Or do we need the grade five level put downs while someone is hot under the collar.

The same crap is said on radio too, completely uneccessary, but such is the culture of CFS at the moment when you have to put down others, whinge about people in your crew, carry on about the group/captain/region/Adelaide Fire, complain about your appliance and station, scoff at the support of MFS/SES, whinge about your lack of resources....

Time to take a step back me thinks and talk about positive stuff. Or we will lose what really matters in the CFS - the people. If that is still what really matters?

[mattb]

And why people insist on paging for more crew? You have got what you are gonna get instead call for another brigade.

Chook

We page for 'More Crew' after 4 mins if we don't have four people in the station, at the same time we also respond another brigade. We have had a number of times when people have responded off the 'More Crew' page because they either didn't hear or didn't receive the first page (well at least that's what they tell me, I'm sure that some of it is probably call picking though).

My question regarding this incident is should an appliance really be responding with only two crew to an alarm / going job.  We would get absolutely spanked silly by Region and Group if we responded with only two on a primary responding truck, not to mention MFS would go ballistic if they saw us at a job with only two on board.

[bittenyakka]

well Matt i think the answer to that is it depends on your brigade location i know  especially in the day around here any crew is good crew. but at least 4 is really good.

[mack]

well Matt i think the answer to that is it depends on your brigade location i know  especially in the day around here any crew is good crew. but at least 4 is really good.

not being rude, but the answer to that is actually in the SOPs...

I know its a lot harder to get a full crew in some areas... but at the end of the day, what is a crew of 2 going to do at a working structure fire?

[Crank]

Im all for the SOP of minimum 4 crew 2.2 above.  But there has to be common sense involved.  No truck should be responding by themselves without the minimum.  Cant get a full crew page another brigade and dual respond, no point in the those that turned up going to waste.  But having said that there are times where they should not be the first due appliance, at grass fires, house fires due to the risk to the crews.  Wait at the station until it is determined another truck will be or is on scene for two reasons - crew safety and for professional reasons.  Also possibly they should not be responding P1? That is open for question - what do people think?

only 2 crew use them as a tanker, park the appliance and put them onto an available appliance, at a working structure fire there is no reason why they still cant be utilised.

Again i must point out a truck should not be operating without the minimum but in these cases why does it matter as a reduced crewing amount will no endanger anyone.

[SA Firey]

Almost as bad as a brigade who recently went to a brush fence fire and almost impacting a residence and 1 person and appliance responds

[24pumper]

And why people insist on paging for more crew? You have got what you are gonna get instead call for another brigade.

Chook



My question regarding this incident is should an appliance really be responding with only two crew to an alarm / going job.  We would get absolutely spanked silly by Region and Group if we responded with only two on a primary responding truck, not to mention MFS would go ballistic if they saw us at a job with only two on board.

Almost as bad as a brigade who recently went to a brush fence fire and almost impacting a residence and 1 person and appliance responds

I think people have to get out of their own backyards and consider the wider state here. While in the near Adelaide areas with an higher member numbers, other brigades and MFS around as well as gazing public and media eye's its fine to set in concrete that you must follow SOP's and have 4 on the truck (prefereably adequatly trained). I would be very reluctant to respond with-out 4 ppl on my truck!! However when your back up isnt around the corner, turning your truck (or even 14) out with 2 or 3 crew might be the differnece between that fence fire getting into the house, or a small grassfire increasing to something greater. I know there are OHSW issues around it, but even at a structure fire, 2 crew could conduct exposure protection prior to neighbouring brigades arriving, so long as they also call other brigades, What gets me more than anything is brigades who respond appliances short on crew and refuse to ask for assistnace from neighbouring brigades/ services.

Again, i would really try to avoid doing it, or going against the SOP's, but in some areas of the state something is certainly better then nothing.

[Knackers]

Just curious, but what does a single page cost? And who bills the service/gov? Would not happen to be our friends at Telstra would it?


I not in SES or CFS, but if I was to get a message like the one discussed at 2 am in the morning, I would be annoyed. You can not make every call when you are a Volly, do the management of these services realise that. Though, you can turn the pager off if you do not wish or are unable to respond.

[Zippy]

around 25c per pager address per message ive been told

but you would think that the budget for the pager service is incorparated in the contract of running the GRN.

[Sam]

You have 3 people and your nearest backup is 40 minutes away, do you respond?

[Zippy]

hmm...well...in a situation like that ud hope that Adelaide Fire automatically sent multiple brigades.

Id wait up to 8 minutes before rolling. Then its up to the OIC of appliance on what the roles of the crew are.

im sure others have different views.

[bajdas]

You have 3 people and your nearest backup is 40 minutes away, do you respond?

Personally it would depend on the job.. any vehicle with striping, lights & cones at a tree down on road task can make it safer.

At a RCR & if the vehicle is safe, the 2 crew might be able make the scene safe with the vehicle, disconnect the battery, have extinguishers deployed, clear an airway & reassure the casualty. All things that can save a life...

Two crew can radio an accurate SITREP & ensure other agencies are notified/upgrade response if required.

I am not a firey, but I would have thought the extra equipment on the truck with two operators can make a situation safer, while waiting for a full crew to arrive 30 minutes later. Better than waiting for the full crew arrives before anything happens at the tasking.

Might not be able to do everything, but better than 30 minutes later.

** my personal opinion only **

[bajdas]

The moto I was always taught was...

"Praise in public, punish in private"

[bajdas]

i like the idea of paging when the appliance has returned to station...

but dont really agree with the hundreds of pager messages you see daily stating, appliance has responded, appliance is on scene, appliance still on scene, etc etc... some brigades are notorious for this, and it just seems like a waste (perhaps they dont realise how much it costs wvery time we drop a page??)

But are the messages going to multiple pagers or just the officers or one person  (eg duty officer) ?

Sitreps on GRN radios can cause issues getting an accurate message quickly across. Everyone carries a GRN pager & I am against use of volunteers mobile telephones because they never get reimbursed for cost.

Pager messages are an accurate & quick way of sending details because it is in writing & you can be reasonably assured the message will get through (compared to SMS).

As for SES crew responding pages, when crew cannot make a 6 minute response times it is quicker way for the crew to state they are attending to be in a second vehicle.

It is easier & not against road rules to view GRN Pager messages while driving. But to view an SMS while driving, it is illegal.

It also is far quicker than 15 volunteers telephoning the duty officers mobile which still occurs in some SES Units.

[Zippy]

It is easier & not against road rules to view GRN Pager messages while driving. But to view an SMS while driving, it is illegal.

i believe u are probably incorrect...as any device that takes ur hands and mind away from driving is considered against the law to use while driving.  So play it safe...pull over or just drive to the station if its a response page .

[6739264]

At a RCR & if the vehicle is safe, the 2 crew might be able make the scene safe with the vehicle, disconnect the battery, have extinguishers deployed, clear an airway & reassure the casualty. All things that can save a life...

Two crew can radio an accurate SITREP & ensure other agencies are notified/upgrade response if required.

I am not a firey, but I would have thought the extra equipment on the truck with two operators can make a situation safer, while waiting for a full crew to arrive 30 minutes later. Better than waiting for the full crew arrives before anything happens at the tasking.

Might not be able to do everything, but better than 30 minutes later.

** my personal opinion only **

At an RCR two crew could effect the extrication of those trapped.

The 4 min crew is a nice rule, and is generally an easy thing to follow in your urban fringe areas. In country areas and often of a day time it is another matter altogether.

Just be smart about what you do. AFA and only 3? May as well go, should be another appliance coming. FDI 50+ and two crew to a grassfire... may be another matter entirely.

[Pipster]

around 25c per pager address per message ive been told

but you would think that the budget for the pager service is incorparated in the contract of running the GRN.

I don't know of the specific price per pager message, but, from the CFS Annual report for 2006-07, the CFS spent 17.5 % of its budget (around $9.6 million) on provision of emergency communications services via the GRN (including voice, paging & data transmission)

Pip