Author Topic: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday  (Read 17362 times)

Offline Sternzee

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« on: December 19, 2007, 07:19:35 AM »
Hi all,

woke up to the news that we are now all going to get sued if mother nature decides  to have a bad day, can any one who's closer to the top confirm if this is accurate  and if so whats every ones thoughts??

my thought is that there wont be a volunteer fire brigade very long if this is allowed to go through its rather hard all ready to recruit vollies cant see adding you might get sued to the recruitment drive helping out any,

i think that this would be mightily unfair to the local brigades who wouldve no doubt been trying their hardest under the most trying conditions to protect as many assets as they could,

as for the local farmers and such who lost property its been drummed in our heads to be prepared YOURSELF for a bushfire as there will NOT be a truck at every house shed etc. and there is plenty of evidence that a well prepared farm, house, shed or even caravan can be saved very easily with a little planning.

over all perhaps they would like to see how the next one goes with only farm units.

*my oppinion only*

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 07:33:26 AM »
Where did you hear this ? Was it just a hook line from a news service or was there any flesh to story? As volunteers we are pretty well protected by the "good samaratin" act!
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline Sternzee

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 07:47:54 AM »
Yes it was a news story however it made reference to volunteers as well as calls from locals for Euan Ferguson to step down I have no back story on this other than what ive read of the coronial report and what the friendly news people said.

(hence the reason i asked for any one closer to the top of the chain to confirm it or not)

however i still think that it would be a slap in the face if the CFS in general was sued because it still reflects that the local brigades were negligent in some way and that is what got my attention.

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 07:58:32 AM »
I heard on 891 that there was going to be action taken against CFS and the guy who's car started it all

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 09:02:07 AM »
Action against the CFS pretty much goes straight to the government, so its Rann/Foley/Zollo

Offline CaptCom

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 10:01:18 AM »
It is true at this stage...it still has to be lodged and apparently by 10th January.

There is supposed to be 30 families involved (some are CFS members) and the lawsuit is also against Mr Visic who started the fire.

They are apparently, looking for 10-20million dollars.

It will impact on some of us who have already spent time in the coronial court....

it's not over yet..

Offline Alan J

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Certified Flamin' Nuisance
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 12:31:11 PM »
Where did you hear this ? Was it just a hook line from a news service or was there any flesh to story? As volunteers we are pretty well protected by the "good samaratin" act!

The CFS can & will be be sued.

According to the VFBA, volunteers can also be named as respondents & have to prove that their alleged negligence was not gross enough to lose the protection of sect.127 the FES Act. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/faesa2005249/s127.html

Vols can also be called (subpoenaed?) as witnesses.

Plenty of opportunity for vindictive people to perpetuate the grief for those vols & staff unfortunate enough to have been involved.   :-( :x

AJ


Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 12:34:11 PM »
I would not take it to heart what the media are saying at the moment...

Offline Alan (Big Al)

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,609
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • CRUMPETS
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 01:52:46 PM »
After reading the summarised report and then listening to the news, it not hard for the media to put a very twisted veiwpoint on it all.

Don't think the report was as bad as it could have been, but i'm not an expert (at least i hope not :-D).
Lt. Goolwa CFS

Offline CaptCom

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 02:03:03 PM »
For those of us over here at the cold face....we agree that the coroner's report was quite fair and balanced....not what the media are portraying by any means....nothing new...we have learnt that the media have no morals or care for the further trauma or pain they inflict on volunteers...

I did enjoy Euan's radio interview this morning...finally we are having an opportunity to fight back and defend ourselves....it's only taken nearly 3 years

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 04:29:55 PM »
According to the VFBA, volunteers can also be named as respondents & have to prove that their alleged negligence was not gross enough to lose the protection of sect.127 the FES Act. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/faesa2005249/s127.html

Vols can also be called (subpoenaed?) as witnesses.

Once again, the SAVFBA goes into bat for its members. :roll:
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Robert-Robert34

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,429
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 07:26:46 PM »
Isnt it about time we made the media crews respond to large fires as fire fighters so they can see how dangerous our job truly is :-)
Kalangadoo Brigade

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 08:50:01 PM »
???

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 09:00:08 PM »
....only to make more coronials occur.  :|

Offline Alan (Big Al)

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,609
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • CRUMPETS
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 09:01:07 PM »
Coronials or coronaries   :-P   :lol:
Lt. Goolwa CFS

Offline CaptCom

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2007, 07:39:30 AM »
Obviously Robert34 you have never experienced the media on the fireground...they are always the ones in the wrong place, won't do as they are told and of as much value as .....

they are an unusual breed who get enjoyment from twisting the truth and sensationalising everything...

that's why they say "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!"

Offline chook

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2007, 07:54:10 AM »
The media have a job to do and all though we may not agree with their slant on things its called free speech. They can be useful too you know, part of the problem is we don't talk to them enough to get a balanced view point & they need to fill papers or air time.
Example last night at Pinnaroo, they were there in force & they clashed with one of the householders, however a sensible discussion around rules with the media crew & an offer of an official interview calmed the situation.
I agree they are a pain and they will report anything. Remember too the members of your service expressed certain views to the media, so if you air your dirty laundry in public they will pick up on it. And don't get me started on Lawyers :-D
cheers
Ken
just another retard!

Offline boredmatrix

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2007, 11:23:49 AM »
I have to agree with Robert on his point of the media being a good tool!

whilst working in Regional SA and being the local media Liason- I found the best way to deal with the media was to get them close and accessible!  we both had an open door policy, and we clashed a fair bit too, but generally we were all happy.

 The print media were so innaccurate that I offered to write the articles for them - and they printed them verbatim - and hey PRESTO! -> no more innaccurate reporting!  Some may argue it was the wrong way to go about it, but hey....what was I going to do with all my downtime!??   :mrgreen:

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2007, 11:46:27 AM »
Would be nice if the local media where dressed in PPE and not wearing high heels around a burnt out padock,better still it would be nice if they asked to come onto the fireground rather than just rock up to private farm and do what they like....

Offline Pipster

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,269
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2007, 03:46:17 PM »
The media do have guidelines (rules?) they are meant to abide by, when on the fireground - they have to have a current media pass, issued by CFS, which indicates they have undertaken the CFS training, and are required to wear the appropriate PPE....

However, if there are no roadblocks in place, and they are on public property / road, it can make it difficult to police these sorts of guidelines....

I think there are some more formal things as well, but I am not that familiar with those...anyone else got the specifics?

Pip
There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2007, 06:57:25 PM »
Pip is correct, the media must do a CFS training session every two years to be allowed access to the fireground, they are issued an ID pass to identify that their training is current. This year the training was undertaken by Heidi from Public Affairs and consisted of a good overview of the CFS as well as a solid session on fire behaviour and Air Ops, it gave you a good idea on where to put yourself to minimize the risks.

Anyone entering the fireground must be wearing their full PPE which is generally two piece Proban, boots and a rural helmet. If they are not wearing their gear then they should not be allowed access.

The problems arise when SAPOL block a road, the media arrive and are generally denied access. The area may be safe but because most police officers in patrols don't know about the CFS SOP's regarding media access and they will not let them through. This then creates angst among the media and results in them trying to find other (generally less safe) ways to access the incident.   

The major television stations will generally send a helicopter to any decent rural jobs, this assists in getting past any roadblocks and also allows for good vision of the fire.

The media should not always be seen as the enemy, remember that without them no one would know what we do or how we do it, they also are the ones that get the information about ongoing incidents out to the public.

I know that sometimes it seems like they are out to screw you but try to work with them, if you have a local newspaper nearby try and build up a relationship with a reporter. Maybe invite them to a training night or any special events so they can see what you do and possibly do a positive story on your brigade.

If you can be pro-active now it will assist you in the future.


Offline big bronto

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2007, 08:23:54 PM »
To the post that started this topic, you will not have to worry about being sued if you do your job and don't take shortcuts, always write stuff done and if you think the incident is above your capabilities or you are unsure then hand it to paid staff who are paid to take that responsibility...

Offline chook

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2007, 09:16:01 PM »
Well said to Mattb & Bigbronto - thats exactly right, no more needs to be said.
And if all else fails the officer on the scene use the powers within the act to remove the media. As for the report, it should be seen as a learning experience. And as Big bronto said if its beyond your experience or its too big get paid officers to lead after all thats what they are payed for! cheers
Ken
just another retard!

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2007, 05:51:54 AM »
The report into the black Tuesday fire was not as bad as what some people made it out to be,I sent a copy onto some CFA friends and they all agree that the media made everything bigger. I think it should be said  that those Volunteers who took the stand and who where grilled for a long time in the box should be comended(spelling) for what they said and did while in the box.The VFBA who where there to provide support to volunteers did a great job,We can all learn from this and as we all know CFS have done some things that are  in the report. What ever happens now is up to those that seek some compersation for their loss of life and income,if we keep supporting each other we will all come through this. I know for some members its been very hard and many have looked at leaving the service,to them I say don't go,if you go then they have won and we have yet again lost members who we all know are hard to get back if they go. We are human and we are only as good as the training and support we get from above.....

Offline Darius

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2007, 09:15:11 AM »
The media should not always be seen as the enemy

they have really bright lights on the cameras too which can be very useful on a dark night (beats the little CFS clip on torches!).
 

 

anything