Author Topic: Introduction of aerial appliances to the CFS (Read 67517 times)

boredmatrix · « **Reply #125 on:** February 05, 2008, 11:03:52 PM »

easily sperated. Any CFS station with urban appliances has the trucks painted red and given to MFS - all the vols at the station become retained!

....CFS keep the rest!!

pumprescue · « **Reply #126 on:** February 06, 2008, 03:51:29 AM »

Quote from: firehawk on February 05, 2008, 07:04:06 PM

I heard a rumor that CFS are actually considering building an Aerial appliance and running it as a state resource out of a centrally located brigade. Burnside was mentioned, (possibly instead of their new pumper???). It would respond to incidents around the city as well as to prolonged structure fires a bit further away like mount barker, murray bridge, gawler etc.
I think its a good idea if its actually going ahead, but i would suggest a brigade with more industrial risks in area such as salisbury or happy valley.

I also heard that John Wayne was coming back from the dead and was gonna run for US President.

Gilly · « **Reply #127 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:11:37 AM »

Yeah... and boris yeltsin is playing for the crows this season...

6739264 · « **Reply #128 on:** February 06, 2008, 12:03:02 PM »

Quote from: pumprescue on February 05, 2008, 06:17:17 PM

I think we should adopt the NSW approach.

CFS = 4x4 bushfire trucks , proban and construction workers helmets, only respond to bushfires and nothing else.

MFS = 4x4 pumpers, heavy pumpers, all appropriate training to fight fires in urban interface areas, training for urban stations who's bread and butter work funnily enough isn't bushfires anymore.

CFS needs to get serious, or get out of the urban game.

Be mindful though that there are certain Urban Fringe RFS brigades that are BA equipped. Not a whole lot, but still a handful. They even have their Cat11 Urban pumpers built for the job...

Quote from: COMP00 on February 05, 2008, 06:36:02 PM

Just a query. What extra urban training is there available?

Not saying there isnt any...just been racking my brain trying to work out what else there could be. My head hurts now!

There is a fair bit that is brushed over and only touched on theoretically. The OBAOC course and the CFBT courses are great. CFBT needs to be expanded further than just the demo cell that is used currently into actual door entry/room extinguishment techniques. Ventilation, salvage, working on roofs, forcible entry, things like this that form the basics of structural are only touched on theoretically. USAR is a whole different kettle of fish, but the CAT 1 course is a no brainer, and is more of an awareness course.It could well be introduced across all emergency services.

Quote from: chook on February 05, 2008, 08:36:06 PM

My guess is pumprescues dream is closer than he realises!
Its all in a name.

The theory behind it isn't bad, but my god the think of the funding! To have SAMFS in every town! Though I can't say the money would be well spent, with some NSWFB Station doing less than 10 calls a year, its worse than our SAMFS retained. Now, about that single fire service with both volunteers and paid staff...

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #129 on:** February 06, 2008, 02:14:48 PM »

maybe some of that stuff will appear in the new level 3? But i agree with numbers.

Although isnt just about everything in the CFS brushed over? Ive learnt more through in house training then i ever did at a CFS course. Is this just me or does someone agree?

Pipster · « **Reply #130 on:** February 06, 2008, 02:50:44 PM »

I didn't think CFS courses were designed to give you everything you ever need to know on a particular topic....nor do most people have the time to spend hours & hours every week on a course to learn everything...

Pip

Sarge · « **Reply #131 on:** February 06, 2008, 02:54:46 PM »

Quote from: COMP00 on February 06, 2008, 02:14:48 PM

maybe some of that stuff will appear in the new level 3?

What new level 3 last I heard was that L3 is being canned & replaced with a couple of different courses.

Sarge · « **Reply #132 on:** February 06, 2008, 02:58:30 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 12:03:02 PM

There is a fair bit that is brushed over and only touched on theoretically. The OBAOC course and the CFBT courses are great.

CFBT? Compartment Fire Behaviour T?

6739264 · « **Reply #133 on:** February 06, 2008, 03:26:09 PM »

Quote from: Sarge on February 06, 2008, 02:58:30 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
There is a fair bit that is brushed over and only touched on theoretically. The OBAOC course and the CFBT courses are great.

CFBT? Compartment Fire Behaviour T?

Compartment Fire Behaviour Training?

Quote from: Pipster on February 06, 2008, 02:50:44 PM

I didn't think CFS courses were designed to give you everything you ever need to know on a particular topic....nor do most people have the time to spend hours & hours every week on a course to learn everything...

Pip

True, they aren't, but there are some areas that need to be taught in more depth, or even just a single practical exercise to reinforce the basics.

Sarge · « **Reply #134 on:** February 06, 2008, 03:37:44 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 03:26:09 PM

Quote from: Sarge on February 06, 2008, 02:58:30 PM
Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
There is a fair bit that is brushed over and only touched on theoretically. The OBAOC course and the CFBT courses are great.

CFBT? Compartment Fire Behaviour T?

Compartment Fire Behaviour Training?

Fair Enough I've only known it as a CFB Course

Pipster · « **Reply #135 on:** February 06, 2008, 04:43:07 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 03:26:09 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on February 06, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
There is a fair bit that is brushed over and only touched on theoretically. The OBAOC course and the CFBT courses are great.

True, they aren't, but there are some areas that need to be taught in more depth, or even just a single practical exercise to reinforce the basics. [/quote]

Some more training courses, and some "basic" and then "advanced" type training, in a wide variety of topics would be nice.....but no matter what you do, you cannot possibly expect to "learn everything" on a course!

Pip

6739264 · « **Reply #136 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:37:24 PM »

Quote from: Pipster on February 06, 2008, 04:43:07 PM

...but no matter what you do, you cannot possibly expect to "learn everything" on a course!

Pip

Good god no, and I'm not suggesting such. But just think, we have step by step FGP's for folding a salvage sheet, but not for forcing entry through doors, or ventilating a roof or a building.

Ok, sorry, I know we don't even carry the right tools for forcing entry, but that just goes to show that CFS won't even equip brigades for the job they are meant to be doing.

Faux Pas · « **Reply #137 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:44:48 PM »

Speaking of FGP's I am surprised that there isn't one for "Forming your opinion of the CFS, and its paid structure, based on your Brigades opinion". There seems to be enough of it going on around here

Zippy · « **Reply #138 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:55:50 PM »

Quote

Ok, sorry, I know we don't even carry the right tools for forcing entry, but that just goes to show that CFS won't even equip brigades for the job they are meant to be doing.

Oh no's 671598739 but we do...its a halligan tool and sledge hammer!...but yes we're not appropriately trained to use them in a safe manner in State trainings eyes.

Watch some good American Volly firefighers do it on youtube, they know how to!

6739264 · « **Reply #139 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:09:39 PM »

Oh no HazmatZippy, we don't. Standard Urban stowage is a Hooligan Tool, with RCR cutting claw. It also has a lightweight sledgehammer. Neither of these will give you a great chance at opening that door with the screaming kids behind it.

chook · « **Reply #140 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:25:57 PM »

Ah you guys need a trusty Holmatro Combitool, small pump, ram & also a diskcutter, like your friends in the mets have!

I've heard Holmatro will do good deals for the fire services

On a serious note - courses especially for volunteers are only designed to give you the basics - OJT is where you really learn.
Next time have a look at the Chubb training web site, and the time frame allowed. Then compare to the vollies courses and the ones done by full timers.
And before anybody has a shot - as a state trainer on several subjects I think I might be a slight bit qualified to talk about training.
cheers

6739264 · « **Reply #141 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:39:06 PM »

Chook, you can keep your combitool, its too big and bulky for forced entry to buildings. Ill take the trusty Holmatro HD 100 and my Axe/Halligan thanks

Its fine for courses to give the basics, but there is no follow up to reinforce the training, nor is OJT the greatest, especially when you have a crap crew.

chook · « **Reply #142 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:47:45 PM »

too true sadly though its all we got

Of course we could always do what the army reserve do two week live in courses

On the tool thing saw some good stuff at a conference I was at last year, designed & built for the Israeli military for getting to fortified doors - hand powered good stuff

like your choice of though!
cheers

6739264 · « **Reply #143 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:49:11 PM »

Now now, we can't use military grade explosive on doors chook!

bittenyakka · « **Reply #144 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:51:52 PM »

darn i thought blowing stuff up is what the CFS does

6739264 · « **Reply #145 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:56:49 PM »

No, filtered stuff up is what the CFS does.

Faux Pas · « **Reply #146 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:01:54 PM »

No no they blow stuff up...its called over exaggerating to the media!!

6739264 · « **Reply #147 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:06:57 PM »

No need to become a one trick pony Mr. Faux Pas

Faux Pas · « **Reply #148 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:12:35 PM »

But hey that is all that these topics seem to be...same comments just reworded!

So back on topic, If CFS introduce more structural training what should be included and how should it be delivered?

6739264 · « **Reply #149 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Faux Pas on February 06, 2008, 09:12:35 PM

But hey that is all that these topics seem to be...same comments just reworded!

So back on topic, If CFS introduce more structural training what should be included and how should it be delivered?

What I think should be in it, the basics, has all been previously mentioned in this thread. The delivery should be as it is, with some decent practical evolutions so that everyone gets as hands on as possible.