MFS pre-election leaflet distribution

[Alan J]

The the last few days before the election I was listening to ABC-891. There were a number of calls of complaint about uniformed MFS people with appliances at various locations around Adelaide handing out anti work choices material.

Has any action been taken against the fireys concerned ?  Has HQ weighed in on this at all ?

Just curious, because if I, as an employee of what was formerly a QANGO were to be doing so, especially had I used a 'company' car to transport me to said place, I would be dismissed. Sure there would be a rigmarole to wade through, but eventually I would be g-o-n-e.

cheers
AJ

[bajdas]

I heard on the news radio the next day, that the Minister for Emergency Services had requested an answer from Chief Officer of MFS. The UFU denies knowledge.

[rescue5271]

The UFU did the same in each state from a report on the ABC and they all want an answer as to why firefighters and appliances that where on duty where not doing their job....

[safireservice]

The UFU denies knowledge.

Sure they do, we know nothing, nothing!

[CFS_Firey]

they all want an answer as to why firefighters and appliances that where on duty where not doing their job....

Who says they weren't doing their job?  Appart from the fact that trying to get rid of WorkChoices is clearly helping the community, I can't see any reason why sitting at their station watching Foxtel would have provided a better service...

[6739264]

The UFU did the same in each state from a report on the ABC and they all want an answer as to why firefighters and appliances that where on duty where not doing their job....

3/4 of the paid fire services around Australia are off duty at any one time. Whats wrong with local appliances being used as long as they are available if needed?

If I was in their position I'd be behind the union all the way. They are merely fighting for a better workplace.

[Firefrog]

But surely govt employees can't be involved in political promotions while on duty.

What would we say if employees were standing on street corners promoting other causes or religion etc etc we would not stand for it. So why is politics ok?

I say govt employees state or federal should do their jobs while on duty and do whatever they choose to do while not on duty.

my 2cents

[6739264]

What do you think about off duty protesting in uniform as part of their Union?

[chook]

Uniform is ok, as most members of a union are filmed in their company gear during a dispute anyway, it just shows they are part of a group.
However using an appliance (company property) gives the impression that this action is supported by the company (State Government).
Remember just over 50% of the community supports the new government - so they were not doing something thats good for all of the community :wink:
Not sure about SAMFS, but I know we (SESSA)have a Code of Conduct that would prohibit that type of activity using State supplied vehicles. My guess is no one really thought too much about using the big red trucks, or the implications of such activity. After all they are used for other non work related activities :-D
cheers

[mack]

Uniform is ok, as most members of a union are filmed in their company gear during a dispute anyway, it just shows they are part of a group.
However using an appliance (company property) gives the impression that this action is supported by the company (State Government).

personally i would see using uniform as being much the same thing as using appliances... gives the impression that it is the organisation backing the movement.

also, i would have thought it was fairly innapropriate. It may be the firies fighting for a better workplace, but perhaps innapropriate on company time, and also may give the service a negative view in some of the eyes of the public.

[Firefrog]

What do you think about off duty protesting in uniform as part of their Union?

Union endorsed action that is legal and fighting for workplace conditions is very different to actively involving yourself in election campaigning. IMO.

Career fire fighters, police, ambos etc should have the right to wear uniform during industrial issues. The difference I see in this case is that the public can see that the workers are fighting for pay and conditions. And actively attempting to engage the organisation they work for.

Election campaigning sends the signal that the whole organisation supports xyz political party and that could become a powerful influence.

My Opinion for what it's worth....................... 8-)

[6739264]

also, i would have thought it was fairly innapropriate. It may be the firies fighting for a better workplace, but perhaps innapropriate on company time, and also may give the service a negative view in some of the eyes of the public.

Don't keep getting hung up on the "On company time" thing. There are huge numbers of Firies, Cops and Ambos OFF duty at any one time.

Mind you, it's not like the firies union to ever back down from a protest, or a stop work action.

"We're Coming Back!"

Election campaigning sends the signal that the whole organisation supports xyz political party and that could become a powerful influence.

Anti work choices protests are far from what I'd call "Supporting xyz Political Party". Work choices were going to impact the emergency services in a massive way had the Howard Government been re-elected. Protesting to save your job and its conditions, can never ever be a bad thing.

[bittenyakka]

6793264 in what ways where the work choices going impact the emergency services?

there was no admission by the liberal party that work choices would be changed at all. Tell us the facts and what supports this.

I do understand both sides of the work choices argument and am not necessairly a mad liberal supporter, i swing :-P

[mack]

also, i would have thought it was fairly innapropriate. It may be the firies fighting for a better workplace, but perhaps innapropriate on company time, and also may give the service a negative view in some of the eyes of the public.

Don't keep getting hung up on the "On company time" thing. There are huge numbers of Firies, Cops and Ambos OFF duty at any one time.

huh? arent we talking about MFS firies, in there uniform , as in PPE (which as far as i know they dont take home), standing next to appliances (which they definitely dont get to take home) handing out political material?

as far as i can tell it must have been during work hours...?

[6739264]

also, i would have thought it was fairly innapropriate. It may be the firies fighting for a better workplace, but perhaps innapropriate on company time, and also may give the service a negative view in some of the eyes of the public.

Don't keep getting hung up on the "On company time" thing. There are huge numbers of Firies, Cops and Ambos OFF duty at any one time.

huh? arent we talking about MFS firies, in there uniform , as in PPE (which as far as i know they dont take home), standing next to appliances (which they definitely dont get to take home) handing out political material?

as far as i can tell it must have been during work hours...?

You can certainly take PPE from the station for union activities and the like. It certainly isn't something that stays at the station. In terms of the Nov 22nd Nation wide rallies, I can assure you that 99% of those who took part were off duty, with appliances local to the area in which the rally was being held, being used so they could still respond if required.

As CFS-Firey suggested, if the blokes were on duty, yet at a local community spot handing out anti-workchoices leaflets, its a far better use of their time than sitting at the station watching foxtel. They were fighting for their own job security. Is that such a bad thing?

Bittenyakka, some things under threat if the Howard government had remained in power and extended their workchoices policies into the emergency services, as they had already suggested included:

-Loss of lhe 10/14 working roster
-Compulsory working of unpaid overtime
-Loss of meal allowances
-Loss of current Award

On shift or off shift, I'd suggest they had a moral obligation to stand up for their rights.

[bajdas]

.....I'd suggest they had a moral obligation to stand up for their rights.

I tend to disagree with the above statement....but I will have a political argument on 'morals' offline if you wish....

[josh]

I noticed a couple of signs out the front of the Oakden station today.

One was something like "adelaide is growing, the fire service is shrinking"

and the other one is something like "rann labor govt cuts fire service"

[6739264]

Signs should be sticky taped to the trucks as well, allows for a little more visibility...

[chook]

It's their latest campaign, they got hold of the Productivity Commission report on emergency services, selectively took some figures and published them.
Also they are calling themselves "the fire service" & doing what the UFU should do attempt to protect their members. It is very similar to the union verses labour hire in other industries, take a look at the demands where is the better level of protection for the community?
It is unfortunate that their demands will do little to improve the situation for the whole of SA & is a very old tactic. Anyway good on them for keeping the dream alive - too bad everyone else is moving on!
"We also would like the State Government to produce with the assistance of the E.S.O.s a strategic plan based on the SARAMS data to supply an efficient cost effective Emergency Service for the S.A. Community" see what I mean? Pump money into the urban area and stuff everyone else :evil:

cheers

[6739264]

"We also would like the State Government to produce with the assistance of the E.S.O.s a strategic plan based on the SARAMS data to supply an efficient cost effective Emergency Service for the S.A. Community" see what I mean? Pump money into the urban area and stuff everyone else :evil:

Sorry, can you highlight where they specify the "Urban Area"? I read SA Community.

I love how most people on this forum demean the MFS firies and the UFU. Its all well and good for the most of us who are volunteers to sit back in our arm chairs and have a go at the UFU, but do the volunteers have to worry about wage or staff cuts? If the government cut back for us, it may mean less equipment or training courses. For those whose livelihood is firefighting it means an inability to feed their families, more time at work, and the loss of hard won conditions.

The UFU has a responsibility to the firies it represents. It has nothing to do with the rest of SA. Why should the UFU look state wide when it is not their responsibility. It is that of the State Government and SAFECOM to work things out statewide.

...take a look at the demands where is the better level of protection for the community?

Uh... have you really read their two priorities?

Priority 1:

We call upon the S.A. Government to restore funding to the SAMFS recurrent budget for

· The OTR

· The CBR officer

· The USAR officer


And provide funding for the Pod Driver

Priority 2:

In the 2008/2009 budget supply funding:-

    * for the second FF on the Fire Boat
    * for a second pod driver
    * for a fire crew to start at the Beulah Park station in 2008


    * In the 2009/2010 budget supply funding for a Fire crew by October 2009 to staff the new Seaford Station

    * Produce a plan outlining future recruitment plans for the next decade to:-

1. Maintain appropriate numbers to allow existing staff to access their entitlements and to cover long term sick leave reliefs,

2. Recruit enough staff to replace retiring FFs,

3. Staff new stations,

4. Recruit sufficient Officers to manage the Fire Service and train fire Fighters to an approved standard of competency.

We also would like the State Government to produce with the assistance of the E.S.O.s a strategic plan based on the SARAMS data to supply an efficient cost effective Emergency Service for the S.A. Community

So funding for specialist positions has nothing to do with community safety?

Funding for fire crews for new stations.... again, nothing to do with community safety?

Ensure numbers of officers to manage and train the fire service also has nothing to do with community safety?

Chook, despite your obvious anti unionism, how can you suggest that NOTHING in the priorities that the UFU have put to SAMFS deal with better levels of protection for the community?

[chook]

I'm far from anti - union infact until a promotion two years ago I was a member.
I've even wrote to an ex-senior manager of my company predicting the demise of the local operation & the local community (its happened by the way).
And yes you are right - however it is for the safety of the Adelaide community as you said!
Are not the Retained in the smaller stations also UFU members?
And while I don't totally disagree with the statements concerning SAFECOM, I question the sudden lack of support by the UFU.
SAFECOM would not have happened without their support, remember originally it was to be a copy of FESA/QFRS.
So Numbers while I'm not a card carrying member & unfortunately don't get paid for my services, I think the all volunteers should be interested in the actions of the UFU. Now you may say Why? Simple the extra money for their log of claims, will come from the limited funds we all share.
Now if that is the happens - Whats next? EBA negotiation - pay rise, No new equipment for the vollie services, remove high cost elements from our service, transfer to the CFS initially until the next round of "we are looking after our community" campaign. Hello SAF&RS  and smaller communities that the UFU know would never get full time/retained FF's will still be covered by vollies equipped with hand me downs.
Yes Numbers the UFU are doing their job, good on them but they don't serve my community (or most of it) & their actions potentially are damaging to both of the vollie services.
Anyway I have had my say - but just let me clarify one thing I'm not anti union never ahve been never will be! By the way we already have a memmber if staff who is full time & and a USAR specialist, CBR (NBC) is a military specialality (after all they invented it -well their scientist did) & when the time comes it would be easy to find a hook truck driver as CFS & SES both have drivers & they argued for the new stations didn't they?
Cheers Numbers & have a good night

[Cameron Yelland]

The three positions that are listed there.  What do they do and why do they require them to be on shift and not on call? Or have i misread their articles?

Not having a go...just interested.

[6739264]

Its not about having them on shift or on call, its about not having the OTR (operational training relief) cut from 8 to 4 or eventually totally removed, and actually having the funding for the CBR and USAR positions.

The OTR allows more pumps to take part in on shift training by reliving on shift crews.

The CBR and USAR officer positions allow specialist advice and supervision for CBR and USAR incidents. As the positions are unfunded, they no longer exist.

As for Pod truck drivers... what has SAMFS got at the moment? 20 odd pods, 3 hook trucks and ONE rostered driver?

By the way we already have a memmber if staff who is full time & and a USAR specialist, CBR (NBC) is a military specialality (after all they invented it -well their scientist did) & when the time comes it would be easy to find a hook truck driver as CFS & SES both have drivers & they argued for the new stations didn't they?

SAMFS should have a USAR specialist as they deal with USAR. CBR is the domain of the Fire Service, for initial response and mass decontamination, with assistance from the military.

Its great that SES and CFS have hook truck drivers and you know an SES USAR specialist, but I dont think I am even going to bother with the argument as to why SAMFS should have their own full time staff for the disciplines and equipment that they have.

[Cameron Yelland]

ok thanks for the info

[chook]

I agree - but it's not as bad as the UFU makes out is it?
There is an argument for SAMFS to have their own specialist - like their own PR, HR, Media, USAR Specialist etc - but seriously there is other ways to skin a cat. I totally agree with the extra on the fire boat & the CBR specialist by the way! But remember that CBR is an extension of Hazmat - & before everyone starts going off I do know there is some differences but at the end of the day it is still a type of Hazmat. and CFS has Hazmat Officers on duty don't they?
At the end of the day something has to give, so what are they going to give up to get those positions back? Answer is simple - NOTHING!
Instead their initial answer is to increase ESL, that won't be acceptable to the government so the volunteers will suffer. It is obvious by all of your previous posts how you personally want to see the future of SA emergency services and by your wish list on courses for the CFS you have an agenda. But there won't be any funding to pay for those courses anyway!
But I guess there is no point arguing with you about it, the government will decide on those issues. I'm just so surprised that any of you CFS guys can't read between the lines & feel quite offended by what is being implied.
What everyone needs to realise is that the age of intergrated multi agency emergency management is upon us! No more separate little empires, accountability is the buzz word, & until there is a change that says no this is not the way to go then this is the future! And it will be a case of "Get on board or get out of the way!" Now some will like it, some will hate it, but it is happening.
Best of luck to the UFU, after all you are doing what a union is supposed to do but somehow I don't think anyone is really listening.
Well I've said enough cheers