GRN RADIO;S

[ltdan]

Instead of short sharp messages that get to the point, Long rambling discussions that tie up the network, stop messages getting through and sound unprofessional.

Chook,

I do not totally agree with you, when you activate the network, you are on the network therefore talking on the network will not change the factor of delays to the extent you guys keep whining about.  Yes it is correct that this excessive chatter does not help the network, but please understand the non emergency  services perfrom a lot more chatter than the emergency services.

The network can handle this chatter this is not the issue.

The problem which keeps being highlighted are grn radio's being turned on and monitoring channels when not required to.  And queuing up the radio network when you have been told to wait on the network to talk.  When in fact operators just keep pressing the PTT button trying to talk, therefore queuing and back logging the network.

[Zippy]

too many active talkgroups at the same time on the same tower is the problem i believe chook is talking about.   But ive been thinking further...and i believe other nearby towers could be accessible to use...just with a lower quailty (more scracty) connection .

So...its just a matter of keeping conversations Brief, to keep the tower frequencies clear as much as possible.  its rare for situations where 6-8 people are talking at the same time on 8 different talkgroups in the same area

Keep the radios off when not in use for Operations or Training, clear cut and simple. 

lol im tired...shout at me if im incorrect 

[chook]

ltdan, I have a very good understanding of how the GRN network operates. I know about the fact that every set that is turned on takes up resources on the network. And you have a very clear idea of what we are talking about, however I would not call it whining when excessive chatter causes a) serious operational problems, b) important messages not being passed in a timely manner & c)potentially puts crews at risk. It is totally irrelevant that others have more chatter than we do, just as it is irrelevant that the military have far less chatter (12 years including training as a radio op)- different circumstances.
If what needs to be communicated can't put into one short sentence, then mobiles are the go (or simplex). Partly Zippy I know that we have a plan that when we go operational our whole region will be on the same talk group, not sure when that will happen but. cheers

[ltdan]

chook, this chatter would be no different and the same problems would occur on a simplex channel/radio.  This issue has been around for years and it varies from brigade to brigade, group to group, region to region. (It also has been discussed in this type of forum before.) But this is not the reason of the network failing at critical times.

[Zippy]

But this is not the reason of the network failing at critical times.

maybe itd be appropriate to give an insite to what is actually the problem your talking about.

[chook]

Yep understand network busies, referring to simplex was for those who want to have extended chats - the operational channel is kept clear.

Hypothetical for you, 4 people isolated from main group - got to fireground by boat. Two firies two SES, Two firies have got a couple of 38's out, one SES looking after flotation pump & liaising with SES ground crew( in a nearby town)& CFS base, one SES operating the boat. Firies ask for more hose as they are making good headway, try to get on to CFS base-takes ten minutes due to other traffic. Another ten minutes to get an answer, then more time is lost going over to the other side of river to find more hose, get back to crew, connect hose and start pump. By this time opportunity is lost and crew withdrawn.

Thats what I'm talking about, don't worry our service is just as bad. As you said depends on unit, region etc, that is why we are worried about a regional talk group - nothing gained as base stations will still be on, only less talkgroups to monitor. I know what you are saying ltdan, thats why training people properly in the first place is so important & shouldn't be rushed.
cheers

[6739264]

I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to wait to get a message out, but because some idiotic brigade member can't stop talking and start using pro-words, the whole process has taken far too long. In some cases this has put lives in danger.

[chook]

Cheers thats what I'm takin about. Like the term for the

[RescueHazmat]

I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to wait to get a message out, but because some brigade member can't stop talking and start using pro-words, the whole process has taken far too long. In some cases this has put lives in danger.

LMAO

EDIT: Quoted language

[Alan J]

The fact that we CFS tend to hunt in packs makes us our own worst
enemy for radio comms.

That said, seems to me that the comms plan as laid out in the
Operations Handbook should mostly work ok, so long as we actually
adhere to it (have we ever done so?) and:
- strike teams don't import their home TGs into the fireground,
- appliances stay off the IC TG
- Sector commanders & IC recognise VHF congestion & get additional
  channels allocated sooner rather than later.

What say others ?
Also, isn't there a portable GRN cell can be wheeled out to big jobs ?

[Firefrog]

In my view there are two issues, First the infrastructure is limited by the number of available frequencies on a tower.

And secondly the users who need good radio discipline to use the available resources appropriately.

Many users don't understand that they can tie up network resources by monitoring talk groups using GRN handhelds for example.

I know it is common practice for some officers to monitor neighbouring groups or even distant groups jobs, under the guise of "we might get called so need to know what's going on"

If a towers has 8 frequencies and you have CFS, SES, SAAS, SAPOL, Parks, etc, etc, all using several talk groups you can consume eight frequencies very quickly. Now add to the mix someone monitoring other traffic and no wonder there is congestion.

[bittenyakka]

I have done the GRN course and that is exactly whats said. However one thing that confuses me is,
If a group car is on say, 126 then one cell on the nearest tower is being used up by 126 so if any other appliances come and use 126 there will be no further cells taken up. ie if one appliance is on 136 then they all can be and still only use the one cell.

[Zippy]

Thats because a talkgroup only requires 1 frequency.   Remember that you arent using a frequency when the talkgroup is idle,  all the radios on the talkgroup are sent to the Control Frequency during idle times.

Press that PTT,  all the radios get sent to a random frequency at nearest tower to them...hence....it could take up multiple towers.

[RescueHazmat]

I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to wait to get a message out, but because some brigade member can't stop talking and start using pro-words, the whole process has taken far too long. In some cases this has put lives in danger.

LMAO

EDIT: Language

Mods.. - The lanuage wasnt my posting, it was a quote of another post.. Maybe fix the original..

[safireservice]

I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to wait to get a message out, but because some brigade member can't stop talking and start using pro-words, the whole process has taken far too long. In some cases this has put lives in danger.

LMAO

EDIT: Language

Good point there, badly written by the professional.

Mods.. - The lanuage wasnt my posting, it was a quote of another post.. Maybe fix the original..

[6739264]

Good point there, badly written by the professional.

Ease up champ.

[bajdas]

Also, isn't there a portable GRN cell can be wheeled out to big jobs ?

Yep, big special construct trailer that contains generator, aerial mast & GRN repeater radios. Sitting in a SES shed in northern Adelaide metro area, ready for deployment by volunteers.

Just need to ask for it...

[Mike]

I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to wait to get a message out, but because some brigade member can't stop talking and start using pro-words, the whole process has taken far too long. In some cases this has put lives in danger.

LMAO

EDIT: Language

Mods.. - The lanuage wasnt my posting, it was a quote of another post.. Maybe fix the original..

Noted Rescue... Unfortunately modifying the original post doesnt propogate to places where quotes have occured. Will modify the note to reflect this.

[RescueHazmat]

No probs Mike.


Might just want to re-check that original.. ^^ ..

[SA Firey]

The new SOP 10.14 is now in the hands of captains of brigades, so I would make sure you all read it,as there are some intersting changes to talkgroups, ie TG123 when traversing outside your group response area.

[Darius]

yes it's been out roughly a week now but you might want to read it again as TG123 is not featured in there.  You may be thinking of 125 but that is the regional management talkgroup (between region, group base/officers, IMT) not generally for appliances.