cfs volunteers

[24pumper]

May be its time that CFS was allowed to have paid staff aswell as  volunteers in the one station both doing the same job in some of the city urban area's.

Thats a good idea Blinkey, How would it work? Would it work out to be more effective and efficient that having an MFS station there or cost more?

24P

[Zippy]

With the ammount of "Country" MFS stations up in the mid north that dont recieve as many calls as some of the most busy CFS stations...have to wonder if CFS would be able to run those stations as Retained/Volunteer*.  Instead of having a MFS and a CFS station in the same town.

(*small team of retained FF's, supported by a volunteer's)

Retained members would apply in the way that SA government employees would,  while Volunteers would be able to join in the current voluntary manner as today.

[Alan J]

I did not join the fire service to get paid rather to help my local community and I am affraid to say this but some Volunteers have lost the value of community service and are now wanting to get paid for a service which is FREE.

G'day Blinky.
I categorically & absolutely dispute that the service we provide is "free".
Someone, somewhere, somehow, pays to deliver it. Maybe not the recipient,
not the full amount anyway.  But someone pays.

At the moment, the cost of emergency response is primarily bourne by
individual volunteers and their employers. Lost pay, lost productivity,
lost goodwill, lost contracts. It is absolutely NOT "free".

Cost of preparedness if bourne by goverment & volunteers. That includes
hardware, running & admin expenses, travel costs & time. These are also
not "free".

Once upon a time, we did this as cash-strapped local communities & had
to chip in or it couldn't happen.  We also only were expected to chip in
when it was beyond the ability of individuals or groups to manage the
situation.

The CFS has changed.  Training & administrative requirements have multiplied.

Community expectations have changed.  We are now regarded as a convenient
source of free labour for a whole range of things that people used to be
expected to do for themselves.

Like the frog in a heating saucepan thing, all this has happened slowly so
that we who are in it have mostly adjusted rather than hopped out. I dare
say a lot of our predecessors who are held as examples, would have told the
Service in no uncertain terms where to shove it had they been dumped ito
what is required of us now.

Might I also point out that in this debate the term "volunteer" is being
used and possibly ab-used - in a particularly narrow sub-definition of its
full meaning - merely to do something without recompense. 

The full meaning is one who chooses to do something, as distinct from being
coerced.  By way of patriotic example, while all other countries used onscription, our WW1 armed forces were an entirely volunteer force, even
though paid.  Since "Volunteer" in this context is not disputed, why should
it be disputed in the case of financial compensation to CFS volunteers or
their employers?

It is my opinion that the term "retained" as applied to MFS & other urban
services relates more to the contract of availability they sign, rather than
their willingness to respond. Very much a contract of casual employment
rather than "will turn up if reasonably able".

The international convention on voluteering says that no volunteer should
be out-of-pocket for doing so.

I willing do this without pay. However, if the community through its
representative government (two jokes there for the price of one) chooses
to offer me a sweetener eg: rebates to ESL and/or car rego, I shan't knock
it back. It is still my FREE choice (I volunteer) to do this.  And I won't
be any the less a "volunteer" for that.

That's my three bobs worth anyway.
cheers
AJ

[CFS_Firey]

Amen

[firefighter_sa]

Training & administrative requirements have multiplied

agreed.

[Crankster 34]

The minister who might not be the minister for much longer?

Yeah great, then we go back to Patty Conlon, the ex UFU legal counsel and good mate of the MFS.

Not sure what's worse, a minister that has no idea about us and doesn't give a toss or a minister that panders to every request of the MFS and still doesn't give a toss about us   :|

[Darius]

Not sure what's worse, a minister that has no idea about us and doesn't give a toss or a minister that panders to every request of the MFS and still doesn't give a toss about us   :|

or there's the minister that interferes in CFS decision making (as distinct from setting broader policy) and bypasses the relevent authority (eg. SAFECOM) to try to look good in the media.

[bittenyakka]

well start lobbying Hon Stephen Wade MLC to stir up something

[samfs]

after all of that discussion all i was saying is that it would be a good idea for cfs members to get some sort of support money wise for the wear and tear on there cars and fuel costs more so in the rural areas even if it was $20 a month it is better than a kick in the butt

[Pipster]

But under the new funding arrangements, they can claim things like travel, phone calls etc for their day to day CFS acivities..... :-)

Pip

[samfs]

But under the new funding arrangements, they can clam things like travel, phone calls etc for their day to day CFS acivities..... :-)

Pip

i am unaware of the new funding arrangements as my name suggests i am a full time firefighter with samfs  :-)

[Zippy]

basically a lot of the expenses a CFS member does can be "claimable"....

for example doing a Training course at the STC:  Travel (excluding command cars) and Medical.

Its not an income, just a means to break even.

[SA Firey]

Thats right Rann has got plenty money....

[Pipster]

But under the new funding arrangements, they can clam things like travel, phone calls etc for their day to day CFS acivities..... :-)

Pip

i am unaware of the new funding arrangements as my name suggests i am a full time firefighter with samfs  :-)

I posted it in previous topics, and in this one earlier    :-D

Pip

[Alan J]

or there's the minister that interferes in CFS decision making (as distinct from setting broader policy) and bypasses the relevent authority (eg. SAFECOM) to try to look good in the media.

Sorry Darius - that's all of them.
Could you try to be more specific ?    :-D

[samfs]

basically a lot of the expenses a CFS member does can be "claimable"....

for example doing a Training course at the STC:  Travel (excluding command cars) and Medical.

Its not an income, just a means to break even.

but are cfs able to claim travel to and from the station  :?

[backburn]

a quick answer is no

[Pipster]

I think under the new funding arrangements, the answer is Yes...

Pip

[backburn]

Well in the folder that was handed out at our last Group meeting from Region the answer is no if you are attending a callout to your normal Brigade, and that is what the BSO and Richard Wald also said at the meeting. So have a look in the Finance Manual that should be at your station

[Pipster]

Interesting...that is quite different to what we were told at a presentation on the funding arrangements...  :|

Pip

[CFS_Firey]

I think under the new funding arrangements, the answer is Yes...

Pip

If they were paying the usual 50c per KM, they'd need to reimburse me around $500 for last year - the CFS couldn't afford to do that for everyone...

[backburn]

You can get some Travel or Motor Vehicle Allowance for some activity's best way is to look in the Volunteer Finance Manual Version 6 June 2007 section 2.2, 2.3 it may be what you are after. But as they say its being reviewed again as always.

[AJ]

well start lobbying Hon Stephen Wade MLC to stir up something

Examples please? what are these decisions that are interfered with?
I have no problems with people having a go at the CFS management or the government but I think you have an obligation to provide the facts when you make the criticisms. I think thats only fair.

[bittenyakka]

oh i just said  him as he is shadow emergency service minister and was mentioning him as a person to bring these issues to.

[uniden]

Interesting article about the VFBA pushing for paid CFS members. Particularly that Mt Barker was mentioned even though they have so many members that they can have shifts for available members. Why on earth would they need paid firies then? If there are other stations in built up areas that do not have enough membership to get appliances on the road they will probably end up going the way of Seaford...