Author Topic: Seaford Responses (Read 28912 times)

Zippy · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2007, 11:54:45 AM »

stop calls???...we've recently had a private alarm at a Cold Store recently..first truck at two BA crew, with second truck a further 4....at this cold store, the risk of the alarm rising to a HAZMAT was medium to high, as there have been many hazmats at this location due to ammonia leaks. Obviously taking a Pid around while searching the location helped, while we had crews on standby with the trucks if this happened to escalate.

Jono · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:09:09 PM »

Quote from: 6793264 on August 29, 2007, 12:57:03 PM

Theres your problem... Seafood don't need to be responding two trucks to a rubbish fire when they know that there is another 2 appliances coming.
[/quote]

No, not at all. It's our area so we send our two units and stop any other oncoming units if they are not needed. It's SEAFORD too, idiot. The problem that did exist as Captain has explained is that we were low on members, which was fixed a couple of months ago. But due to that poor membership level, MV and MFS were both put on dual response with us. Which is now no longer needed, we have requested to get it taken off. But as of yet it still stands.
[/quote]

Two appliances to a rubbish fire? It's a RUBBISH FIRE "idiot".

If you can't hit that with one truck, you've got issues.
[/quote]

Well that just makes me think of the calls that have come across as rubbish fires and end up being large fires or other fires that require more than one appliance.

Plus you always would send both of your appliances as a default response then if the second is not needed you would put a stop through.

Jono · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:17:13 PM »

Quote from: 6793264 on September 02, 2007, 11:01:04 AM

Quote from: bittenyakka on September 01, 2007, 07:18:48 PM
i think it would be more reasonable to say that 2 brigades should be sent because CFS is a volunteer resource and hence can't guarantee a full crew then at least there will be 4 crew between the 2 brigades.

To go back to the Seafood example, its a rubbish fire. Generally this is going to be some shitty little fire that you can extinguish with a HP line, no worries. You had MFS going, thats one truck guaranteed, and TWO CFS brigades... thats generally another two trucks. You still don't need a hundred trucks from one station.

In defence, MFS and MV shouldn't be coming down that far under original zone conditions. So the more we can prove to them that our crewing levels are now fine, By responding both our appliances which would arrive before either MFS or MV, the quicker we are proving that they are wasting a resources coming that far and the zoning should be returned to normal.

So don't stick it to Seaford for sending two appliances out a door. Question the Gods who are responding 3 stations by deafault.

SA Firey · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:19:43 PM »

It is a known fact that many rubbish fires end up being structure fires due to wheelie bins and/or industrial bins pushed up against the building.If its Seaford brigades area they can send two appliances if they want to

Having responded to many rubbish fires,and one in particular ended up being a 2nd Alarm structure at a school with $50,000 damage, so I would'nt be crying wolf for any call a brigade receives about a rubbish fire.

Two appliances are better than one in most cases.

6739264 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:50:24 PM »

The point I'm trying to get across is that if you have multiple brigades going, you don't need to empty your station, just because you can.

safireservice · « **Reply #30 on:** September 02, 2007, 03:53:35 PM »

Quote from: 6793264 on September 02, 2007, 02:50:24 PM

The point I'm trying to get across is that if you have multiple brigades going, you don't need to empty your station, just because you can.

Maybe you dont need to deplete MFS area either?

6739264 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 02, 2007, 04:50:27 PM »

Ok, CFS only response. The point of only turning out one truck per brigade still stands champ

You don't see SAMFS empty 20 stn. to a 'bin alight' just because they can, do you?

bittenyakka · « **Reply #32 on:** September 02, 2007, 06:16:44 PM »

Look the reason that 3 bigades are on response plans is to get a minimum of 3 trucks there. now in large brigades like Seaford, Mt Barker, Morphet vale etc it might be reasonable to say "oh sorry we don't need you we have already rolled our 1 truck to this call, come back in 8 hours or so".

But in smaller brigades like Piccadilly & Summertown every call is a good way to get experience for your crews and going to calls is a major part of being a CFS member, so when my fellow brigade members arrive at the station for what ever it happens to be there is no way I would ever say "Sorry we don't need you" if only because it would be disastrous for brigade moral.

as for the 14 to a house fire how many brigades don't struggle for day crew? (albet they probably should at least take a 24)

Firefrog · « **Reply #33 on:** September 02, 2007, 10:06:48 PM »

Good discussion but keep it polite!

mattb · « **Reply #34 on:** September 02, 2007, 10:45:39 PM »

Our response plans outline a specific response for Grass / Rural fires, Structure Fires, MVA's and Hazmat jobs, these vary depending on the alarm level and whether or not it is the fire danger season.

All other jobs are a single appliance response from the primary station, this includes rubbish fires, animal rescues, tree downs, kid with his finger stuck in the drain etc etc.

We don't respond the Heavy Rescue pod from SAMFS to all MVA's just because a simple MVA could require it, we send the appropriate resources for the incident as received by the call taker. One appliance to a rubbish fire is what the response plans say.

Zippy · « **Reply #35 on:** September 03, 2007, 02:46:17 PM »

What we have to understand is that in SA there are three acutal zones, all with different ways of responding....quite obvious is the Metro, the Urban-Fringe/Urban Regional Centre's and the Country. What is done by the Urban Fringe cant exactly be the same as the country as there are different conditions there. Speed limits, different roads, terrain etc. While the Met's have traffic lights, high rises, large amounts of domestic housing grouped up everywhere.

Cant expect CFS to work exactly like the MFS. or definately the MFS to work like the CFS.

The urban fringe brigades probably have it the hardest trying to judge what they send to where.

Last nights MVA at Piggot Range road probably only required Morphett Vale 24P and a second appliance on standby for Traffic Control (be aware outside metro area, Police rarely do Traffic Control). Instead 439, MV24P, MV14, HV14, HVPumper went

This is where Adelaide Fire may need to indicates Single Appliance Required in the pager message somehow. And contacting stations directly to "Stop for futher appliances".

Need some sort of MDT

Zippy · « **Reply #36 on:** September 03, 2007, 03:01:24 PM »

oh and something else may help too.....in the same way there are Primary and Support Fire Reports to send to HQ (i hope people know the meaning of Support response lol)...indicate in pager message that ur brigade is Primary or Support.

Maybe a clearer indication of Incident type like "MVA-Spill", "MVA-Injury", "RCR" also.

mack · « **Reply #37 on:** September 03, 2007, 03:54:52 PM »

Quote from: Dezza on September 03, 2007, 03:01:24 PM

oh and something else may help too.....in the same way there are Primary and Support Fire Reports to send to HQ (i hope people know the meaning of Support response lol)...indicate in pager message that ur brigade is Primary or Support.

Maybe a clearer indication of Incident type like "MVA-Spill", "MVA-Injury", "RCR" also.

Dezza - unfortunately call taking is not as simple and clear cut as all that... it would not be possible to indicate whether a brigade is primary or support (not that some brigades seem to know the differance as you said) as an incident does not always end up exactly where the page/MDT msg says.... also although once again it is not possible to define exactly wehat type of VA u are going to be confronted with when you arrive there is a version of what you are saying in the incident response types...

in theory; RESPOND Vehicle accident; is a VA with or without injuries, but no confirmed/suspected entrapments.. where as RESPOND RCR; is a VA that the call to fire or other agency indicates involves an entrapment...

but as u said, call taking is not as simple and clearly defined as it sounds. a response can only be sent going by the information as supplied by any 'un-educated' member of the public...

alphaone · « **Reply #38 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:04:34 PM »

Quote from: Dezza on September 03, 2007, 03:01:24 PM

oh and something else may help too.....in the same way there are Primary and Support Fire Reports to send to HQ (i hope people know the meaning of Support response lol)...indicate in pager message that ur brigade is Primary or Support.

Maybe a clearer indication of Incident type like "MVA-Spill", "MVA-Injury", "RCR" also.

The PRIMARY brigade, atleast as far as I know, is always the brigade with its code first in the section of whos going. IE.MFS: INC # 71 - 02/09/07 23:09,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,PIGGOTT RANGE RD,ONKAPARINGA HILLS, MAP 178 E 16 ,,BETWEEN EDUCATION AND BAINS RD,439 8124*CFSRES: according to this pager message, the incident is in MFS Station 43's area.

6739264 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »

Not necessarily. Look at rescue responses. The primary rescue brigade will be the first number on the pager, even when they are responding into another brigade or even groups area. This does not mean that it's a primary call for the rescue brigade involved.

SA Firey · « **Reply #40 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:15:24 PM »

The PRIMARY brigade, at least as far as I know, is always the brigade with its code first in the section of whos going. IE.MFS: INC # 71 - 02/09/07 23:09,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,PIGGOTT RANGE RD,ONKAPARINGA HILLS, MAP 178 E 16 ,,BETWEEN EDUCATION AND BAINS RD,439 8124*CFSRES: according to this pager message, the incident is in MFS Station 43's area.
[/quote]

Well and truly outside 43's area.This is CFS area and divided amongst 3 brigades being Clarendon,Happy Valley,Morphett Vale depending on which side it is.

The boundary between CFS/MFS area is States Road.

Christie Downs are the designated resource for Road Crash Rescue at Onkaparinga Hills.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #41 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:18:53 PM »

Well all i can say is good luck getting the Database changed and when you do please tell me how?

mack · « **Reply #42 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:25:40 PM »

Quote from: SA Firey on September 03, 2007, 04:15:24 PM

Quote
from Alphaone
The PRIMARY brigade, at least as far as I know, is always the brigade with its code first in the section of whos going. IE.MFS: INC # 71 - 02/09/07 23:09,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,PIGGOTT RANGE RD,ONKAPARINGA HILLS, MAP 178 E 16 ,,BETWEEN EDUCATION AND BAINS RD,439 8124*CFSRES: according to this pager message, the incident is in MFS Station 43's area.

Well and truly outside 43's area.This is CFS area and divided amongst 3 brigades being Clarendon,Happy Valley,Morphett Vale depending on which side it is.

The boundary between CFS/MFS area is States Road.

Christie Downs are the designated resource for Road Crash Rescue at Onkaparinga Hills.

the station numbers are set up so the bells drop first in theory for the primary brigade if response data is correct...

HOWEVER - if there is a specialist resource responding, eg. rescue, aerial, hazmat, tanker, then that resource with its stn number will be listed first.

SA Firey · « **Reply #43 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:29:20 PM »

Just to avoid confusion Mack the quote you posted as coming from me is actually alphaone's quote

...wouldnt want to be accused of posts I didnt write

mack · « **Reply #44 on:** September 03, 2007, 04:40:03 PM »

mmm yer the qoute function has made it look odd as i t ook it from your post... ill edit it a bit.

sesroadcrashrescue · « **Reply #45 on:** September 03, 2007, 06:39:12 PM »

please correct me if i am wrong but isnt the primary brigade the one that is resposible for that area unless it is a RCR where rescue is required.

that is my understanding we run it that way out here even with the SES as rescue if its in our RESCUE area then we take primary with CFS suporrt how ever if it is NON SES task for example assisting with a tree down in CFS area even though our SES area is quite large and covers a lot of CFS area we act as a suport resorse.

i know CFS and SES working together is different but the pricipls are the same and we all have to know who is doing what

Zippy · « **Reply #46 on:** September 03, 2007, 06:44:12 PM »

Quote

please correct me if i am wrong but isnt the primary brigade the one that is resposible for that area unless it is a RCR where rescue is required.

Dual response area's makes it an over-complicated situation .

mack · « **Reply #47 on:** September 03, 2007, 07:08:48 PM »

sesroadcrash - in theory your correct, the brigade whos primary area the incident falls in is essentially responsible for it.. there are obvious exceptions if that brigade is unable to respond.

however there are still statewide SOPs within each service for responses.

sesroadcrashrescue · « **Reply #48 on:** September 03, 2007, 07:20:15 PM »

MACK just asking you to clarafiy something

are you saying the priamy brigade is the brigade responsible for the area or the brigade that forfill the requirement

mack · « **Reply #49 on:** September 03, 2007, 07:55:06 PM »

Quote from: sesroadcrashrescue on September 03, 2007, 07:20:15 PM

MACK just asking you to clarafiy something

are you saying the priamy brigade is the brigade responsible for the area or the brigade that forfill the requirement

not quite sure what you mean, but in my opinion it means that the primary brigade is responsible for ensuring an appropriate and efficient response to any incident, using multi-agencys and brigades if necessary.