sink or swim and the future of some brigades

[nomansland firefighter]

Last night at our AGM the Regional Commander turn up considering we don't get regional officers at our AGM unless invited. The captain, and the other officer from the look on their faces said concern and panic as this was an out of the blue. We did not have quorum and as a consequence we were told unofficially that we will be going down the path of having our operations suspended. His reason for taking this action was their are not enough volunteers living in the town and that our responce time were not up to scratch. What do they expect when you just cant get ppe, pagers or anything. What do they expect from small rural towns where the jobs are 60 km away yes their will be a delay if your employer will allow you to go. Where do you find volunteers when the age of the townpeople is hitting it mid 70's.

With the rant now over how well does this sit with concepts of project sherpa more importantly no advice was given in how to rectify the problem i.e. who to speak to or what tools would be available. How value do you think we now feel in the cfs as we are all keen to carry on. The captain is speaking to the members and what I feel is that their is more of resolve now to maintain brigade as we all still want to be members.

[RescueHazmat]

What Brigade ?

[samfs]

Last night at our AGM the Regional Commander turn up considering we don't get regional officers at our AGM unless invited. The captain, and the other officer from the look on their faces said concern and panic as this was an out of the blue. We did not have quorum and as a consequence we were told unofficially that we will be going down the path of having our operations suspended. His reason for taking this action was their are not enough volunteers living in the town and that our responce time were not up to scratch. What do they expect when you just cant get ppe, pagers or anything. What do they expect from small rural towns where the jobs are 60 km away yes their will be a delay if your employer will allow you to go. Where do you find volunteers when the age of the townpeople is hitting it mid 70's.

With the rant now over how well does this sit with concepts of project sherpa more importantly no advice was given in how to rectify the problem i.e. who to speak to or what tools would be available. How value do you think we now feel in the cfs as we are all keen to carry on. The captain is speaking to the members and what I feel is that their is more of resolve now to maintain brigade as we all still want to be members.

i think that is very sad to hear as there is alot of stations with the same problems but i think that it is disgusting to hear that they will probably shut you down is there another station to back you up in this time of need

[captain]

samfs has hit the nail on the head you need the support from your neighbouring brigades weather they be CFS or MFS to help you get through this tough times ....i know its hard....this sounds like the same situation Seaford was in some time ago

[Zippy]

if its a rural brigade....just send as many crew as you get...act as a support brigade if anything.   We only managed a crew of 2 this morning (a rekindle of rubbish fire)...but the real need was for water instead of crew (a lot of which have gone on holidays).   So assistance from other brigades and to other brigades is good

[Pipster]

This is, unfortunately, a problem right across the state - for various reasons - a actual lack of people on the district, a lack of able bodied people,  a perception (real or perceived) that the brigade is a bunch of hose jockeys that no-one else wants to be part of, or in a few cases, the community wants to support their CFS in every way...except to actually join..

Some of these issues can be addressed, and things (potentially) can be changed.

But, if every able bodied person in the district (and probably some not so able bodied) are members, and you still don't have enough, it is not issue that is easily dealt with (short of a mining company moving in 20 km away, and setting up in the town.)

Nomansland firefighter, I assume from your post, that you are 60 km or more from a larger town, which presumably has a fire service...which would probably mean you are a long way in any direction from another CFS brigade....simply closing down leaves a massive gap in any emergency response...

I don't know what appliance you have, but if you have a 24 / 34 sized, would downsizing to a 14 or QAV help - in that at least the appliance can go out with two people on board, (which is an acceptable number in a 14, not so much in a 24 or 34).

The other thing to remember (and the Regional Commander perhaps needs to be reminded of this) is that under the Act, the CFS cannot just close an existing brigade.  The Act is quite specific about the CO liaising with the local community in relation to the closure of the brigade - and not just calling a meeting to tell the community that the CFS will be closing down the brigade.

AS for not having a quorum...have a look at your membership list.  If there are people who haven't attended for some time, or a physically incapable of being part of the service, then take them off the list (there is a process to do this by).

Once these people have been removed from your membership lists, you call another meeting - and AGM or Special General Meeting, and hopefully have a quorum then.  (In my book, there is no point in having a huge membership list, with the bulk of them unable to do anything in the service).

If there are older members, who can't actually do much / anything anymore, but still want to be part of the brigade, they can be transferred to a new membership class....which I can't remember the name of, which is a non voting member (has no voting rights), doesn't go out to calls etc, but can still be a member...that may remove some of your quorum issues, but also means you can get some of those types of members off your active (and therefore voting) list...

Pip

[nomansland firefighter]

short of a mining company moving in 20 km away, and setting up in the town

A gold mine is being planed for the area which is only 10 km away from the town. Onesteel is reving up its operations through all the ore trucks on the road and we sit on a main national highway. Other emergency services to us are 60 km, 85km and 75 km away. Pip we only have a 14 but it does all the thing that we need it to do. The RC wanted the captain to organise the meetings. I think the Admin Officer doing the stuff on getting some of the missing in action members off the books.

[RescueHazmat]

short of a mining company moving in 20 km away, and setting up in the town

A gold mine is being planed for the area which is only 10 km away from the town. Onesteel is reving up its operations through all the ore trucks on the road and we sit on a main national highway. Other emergency services to us are 60 km, 85km and 75 km away. Pip we only have a 14 but it does all the thing that we need it to do. The RC wanted the captain to organise the meetings. I think the Admin Officer doing the stuff on getting some of the missing in action members off the books.

Some where north of Whyalla im guessing? .. Who other than Glendamboo have only a 14?

How serious re the crewing issues? How many would you get to say.. an RCR call, both day and night?

[Darius]

Some where north of Whyalla im guessing? .. Who other than Glendamboo have only a 14?

doubt it is Glendambo, they are 120km to Woomera, which is the next closest (I think).

Possibly it's Iron Knob?  Anyway like Pip said, there is a process to follow.  Surely your group officer is aware of all this?  The RC should be offering to help not close you down.  Has your captain contacted the regional volunteer support officer?

[pumprescue]

I am pretty sure I know where you are from, but tell the region to help you, its up to the Regional Commander to ensure his region is providing a service. To many brigades get left to their own devices, which is bollocks. Put your hands up and say, Help us.

[RescueHazmat]

Some where north of Whyalla im guessing? .. Who other than Glendamboo have only a 14?

I

doubt it is Glendambo, they are 120km to Woomera, which is the next closest (I think).

Possibly it's Iron Knob?  Anyway like Pip said, there is a process to follow.  Surely your group officer is aware of all this?  The RC should be offering to help not close you down.  Has your captain contacted the regional volunteer support officer?

I agree its not Glendambo, but am unsure who else has only a sole 14 appliance.. ?

-Not sure if they have group officers either.. Believe its a bit different for some of the brigades in the far north, running directly under Region 4 - (Those in the old Roxby Group are now all sole brigades under the Region)..

[why73]

what the? this brigade we are talking about has a dedicated crew of voluntary members who put their families/work and day to day life on hold to service the local community & local area not to mention putting their own lives at risk to help in emergencies yes, we all agree response times are a factor but a slow response is better than none at all. We know that shutting brigades down will only put pressure on other resources else where. What will their response time be like if they have to travel longer distances to attend emergencies? The brigade has a rich history of over twenty years, it would be a shame to see the doors shut and capable members ousted for the sake of beauracratic processes, there must be another solution.          

[Ports]

It's obviously Iron Knob.
Something I've heard recently is the Whyalla City Council have been making noises about moving Iron Knob CFS into Whyalla to provide services outside the Whyalla City Limits. Their view is that the Whyalla City is left under protected when the MFS are attending incidents outside the City Limits.

[rescue5271]

Does not matter who the brigade is what right does the R/C have to just show up?? Was the group officer contacted that he was coming or did he just show up.If a brigade cant get a full quota at a meeting you do the best you can,with rural towns now feeling the loss of firefighter to well paid mining jobs then CFS need to look at better support for these brigades rather than just rock up and say what they feel like without any CONSULTATION.......... I say guys fight for your right to save your appliances and the brigade from closing.

[uniden]

It's obviously Iron Knob.
Something I've heard recently is the Whyalla City Council have been making noises about moving Iron Knob CFS into Whyalla to provide services outside the Whyalla City Limits. Their view is that the Whyalla City is left under protected when the MFS are attending incidents outside the City Limits.

That is a strange concept. Whyalla MFS are set up so that they can cover the area if one appliance leaves the district. Also Port Augusta or Pirie sometimes do change of quarters to Whyalla. Would make more sense to form a Whyalla CFS for the district than move the Iron Knob brigade. Its not really up to councils nowadays anyway as they dont provide any funding towards the fire service.

[Baxter]

"this brigade we are talking about has a dedicated crew of voluntary members who put their families/work and day to day life on hold to service the local community & local area not to mention putting their own lives at risk to help in emergencies yes, we all agree response times are a factor but a slow response is better than none at all. We know that shutting brigades down will only put pressure on other resources else where. What will their response time be like if they have to travel longer distances to attend emergencies? The brigade has a rich history of over twenty years, it would be a shame to see the doors shut and capable members ousted for the sake of bureaucratic processes, there must be another solution.          

I sole heartily agree with you why73 your sediments expressed show that you yourself and the rest of your members (and I assume that I know the brigade like every one else ) have done most probably a stirling job at maintaining morale and motivation. Being from a rural brigade myself I feel that my paid work need to come second to my cfs role as more is expected in a the world of the number and paper crunchers. If you read the original post of nomandsland firefighter has the cfs become a real eastate agent where location location and location is more important than the volunteer who in this case is simple a disposable item when it has outlive its usefulness. I say stand up fight  . Was a group officer involved and if so what did he say or do or are you still waiting for his reaction.

[SA Firey]

Sounds like an RC has gone beyond his duty of care to the brigade.

I suggest that you contact your Group Officer and arrange a meeting asap to discuss why he rocked up unannounced,and put the brigade in the picture about their intentions,and also what prompted this action.I would also be letting the VFBA know about this as well.

Dont just rollover and play dead on this guys

[pumprescue]

The regional commander has every right to show up, he is the regional commander.

Sometimes we forget that we are a fire brigade led by senior staff. We aren't 430 seperate fire brigades, as much as some people like to think.

Having said that, try your best to keep going, otherwise there isn't much out there. If Whyalla council is so worried then how about they approach the MFS with their concerns, its not up to CFS to worry about fire protection in the Whyalla district.

[nomansland firefighter]

Was a group officer involved and if so what did he say or do or are you still waiting for his reaction.

The group officer was present and did not offer any comment on the night. I'll pass on the stuff about whyalla council to the captain to see if he is able to dig up up anything. I spoke to the admin officer last night and who said that on the weekend a door knocking campaign will done to recruit members and support for the Brigade. I think at training we will be having a bit of talk about where we will be heading and what we will be doing. Why73 your right about a responce some form of responce is better than none and in some instance our responce times have not been the best but other times we have got there before the MFS  in whyalla.

We have spent the last 18 months struggling for everything (you name it we most probably don't have it) and now I can see why they made life so difficult for us they just don't want us.

[Pipster]

Perhaps to put some of this in perspective, there are many brigades around the state - some in large towns / areas of high population, some in small towns etc who cannot raise a crew during traditional working hours, or have a very slow response time... nomansland, your brigade is not alone in that - and these are brigades who have 30 + active members, and still struggle.....

It sounds like your brigade is trying hard to do address the issues you have, rather than expect someone else to do it for you - so you obviously have a bunch of people who are keen to do something.

Although not quite in the same postion as your brigade, some years ago, my brigade had crewing issues...6 regular attendees, 15 or 20 minutes to get a crew going for anything, no extras for relief crews....you get the picture.

We changed a few things in the brigade (like vote the old Captain out) then set about recruiting....we door knocked every house in the district, delivered a leaflet about our brigade, and invited people to an open day...

At the Open day, they got a free BBQ, had a chance to squirt water from the hoses, have a look at the equipment, had a demo on putting out a stove fire using a fire blanket, and generally informed people about the CFS.

We got one Cadet out of that day, but got around 6 people in the following few months, as a result of our contact with them.

Have you contacted your VSO?   You might be able to get some assistance from him, in the form of leaflets (or at least get them photocopied) - or other ideas.

There are resources out there that might be able to assist - it's a matter of finding them......

If you need any photos of CFS, for use in a display, let me know - I can supply some for you (that goes for anyone who wants some suitable photos of CFS for display purposes)

Pip

[why73]

i don't think our RC wants the brigade to stay open why not try region 6 they may have a need for a extra 14 appliance

[rescue5271]

There ia alot of work that has to be done before a brigade is asked/forced to close and one of these is a public meeting to seek the support of the local community about the future of the brigade. Keep your head up and get the VFBA behind you. Mind you i think tonight at midnight the vfba is no longer as their new name comes into force??>

[Pipster]

i don't think our RC wants the brigade to stay open why not try region 6 they may have a need for a extra 14 appliance

It shouldn't be up to the Regional Commander to determine....it should be up to the community.   

Do they want a fire service in their town / district?  If they do, then they must do something about it - eg show their support by joining, or contributing to the brigade.

If they don't care / don't want a service, is there any point in continuing?   Sometimes the local brigade (or the Regional Commander or the CFS in general) just have to make the community see that the service is there, and should be supported, and maintained.

On the other hand, the Regional Commander (and I don't specifically refer to this case) has to look at the big picture.   Should brigades who constantly cannot meet the set criteria - eg for number of members, training levels, responses etc simply be allowed to continue as is - money & assets invested in an area, just to make someone feel good?  (And I don't suggest this is the case here - just typing / speaking  generally)

Surely the person in charge of any organisation should be looking at the groups & brigade in the area - how well are they working, are they actually working , do they have the right resources, do they need different resources (eg swap a 34 for a 14), does the community actually support the brigade - if not, why not, and how can the Region assist in getting that brigade up to the accepted standard ?

I suspect that right around the state, there are many rural brigades, in particular, who are facing a similar situation to what has been discussed in this topic - we can voice our disgust about it, perhaps paint the RC / CFS HQ as the bad guys etc, but the RC has a job to do, and we should at least respect that the RC is looking into the issues - even though we may disagree with how that is occurring (and again, I don't know anything of the situation other than discussed here, so there may be other things occurring that we are not aware of)

Having said all of that,  the brigade discussed here is keen to continue, and there are things occurring (eg a new mine going in) which may improve things in the future  with potentially more people moving into the district - so there is still hope.

nomansland, and other members of the brigade - keep trying - work to increase the support of the community, map out, as a brigade, what you want to achieve, and what you think you can realistically achieve, utilise the resources that are out there, to assist (eg your Group, the VSO, the BSO, the VFBA, other brigades / Groups, the CFS Promotions Unit,  to help you achieve that

Good luck

Pip

PS Willing to help if I can   

[Ports]

[/quote]
That is a strange concept. Whyalla MFS are set up so that they can cover the area if one appliance leaves the district. Also Port Augusta or Pirie sometimes do change of quarters to Whyalla. Would make more sense to form a Whyalla CFS for the district than move the Iron Knob brigade. Its not really up to councils nowadays anyway as they dont provide any funding towards the fire service.
[/quote]


You're right in saying the councils don't contribute funding. They are however are significant lobby group and stakeholder and their views are listened to.

[rescue5271]

I think PIP,has the right idea,start knocking on doors in your area,or call a public meeting to see if the local community is going to support you in anyway you may find there are people out there who want to join but for some reason have not.. Funny thing I was at a meeting (cfs) other night and iron knob brigade came up in that meeting as being the only brigade in that region to attend the regional training day one year,,,,,,,