WFAM Response

[Crankster 34]

Just saw this on the paging site

RESPOND TO FIRE ALARM SPRINGBANK PLAZA, CNR WATERLOO RD & KENSINGTING WAY, BURTON *CFSRES:, FIP ALARM *WFAM*, 18/06/2007 11:23:27

Given that this alarm is located in an CFS / MFS dual response area how are MFS going to be responded ??

Looking at this page you would assume that only Salisbury CFS are going. Maybe Salisbury will get to the station and call MFS and ask for them to respond, but wouldn't it be better to do it automatically.

Maybe on the inital page a note could be added - something like 'SOCC TO RESPOND MFS' that way as soon as the SOCC (or MFS Comms soon) see the response page they can initiate a call to MFS and get the appropriate response going as well.

It is interesting to see what response some brigades have to a fixed alarm, many brigades have the WFAM response only to one brigade. Even though CFS SOP's say that two appliances must be responded, are brigades that only have one brigade on the initial page saying that they can always guarantee two trucks out the door ?? If not then we are not responding a correct response to these incidents.

Again I think we are assuming that all fixed alarms will be nothing and that there is no point bothering another brigade for false alarms. Only problem is that if the place is big enough to have a fixed alarm it is at least going to be a B Class risk, as the response to a structure fire in a B Class risk is four appliances we are immediately going to be disadvantaged should we find a going job. At least get two trucks going initially to an alarm so you have some BA backup.

Companies spend big bucks putting in fire detection and suppression systems, it's a shame some CFS brigades don't take the response to them seriously.

[calspec]

Not sure wether you realised that this was a test page:

1909187 11:21:40 18-06-07 FIRE ALARM TESTS FOR SPRINGBANK PLAZA BURTON TO FOLLOW, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND 

Page sent to Para group Officers and Salisbury brigade.  I know this doesn't answer you primary question - how would MFS be responded in this situation.  The page does not appear to have originated either from SHQ or MFS so I would assume that the alarm system initiates the page and it goes direct to CFS Pagers (and to MFS Comcen?).

Excuse my ignorance but what does *WFAM* mean?  I have not come across that one before.

[calspec]

WFAM could mean "Wait for a Moment".  This is CFS, and we do a heck of a lot of that, especially at strike team responses

[CFS_Firey]

Excuse my ignorance but what does *WFAM* mean?  I have not come across that one before.

Wireless fire alarm monitor?

[bittenyakka]

aren't mot alarms these days being privately monitored so the alarm company rings MFS who then dispatch the resources?

[CFS_Firey]

aren't most alarms these days being privately monitored so the alarm company rings MFS who then dispatch the resources?

Yes, but in this case the alarm system is linked directly to CFS headquarters and the brigades are paged automatically with a pre-determined response. The wireless system is the replacement of fixed alarms (alarms monitored by local brigades).

[Darius]

the alarm is sent from the premises to the firemon server, both SOCC and MFS have them. 
PS. crankster for all these preprogrammed responses, the paperwork is signed off by the group, region and SHQ.

[Crankster 34]

Not sure wether you realised that this was a test page:

Yes I understand it was a test page, it was actually a page to ensure that everything is correct as they cut over from the old Romtek to the new Wireless Fixed Alarm Monitoring (WFAM) Romtek. The page was exactly what the brigade will receive when an alarm is activated.

In this situation it looks as though no MFS appliances will be automatically responded.

aren't mot alarms these days being privately monitored so the alarm company rings MFS who then dispatch the resources?

No.

Some are, in fact it is often cheaper to have a system monitored by a security alarm company, however the rollout of the new WFAM system by the CFS will now mean it's cheaper to have it monitored by CFS rather than a security company or MFS.

PS. crankster for all these preprogrammed responses, the paperwork is signed off by the group, region and SHQ.

Yes I realise that, however it seems obvious that Region must just sign off on the single brigade response arrangements without any thought as to what the SOP's suggest or what is actually appropriate.

[CFS_Firey]

aren't mot alarms these days being privately monitored so the alarm company rings MFS who then dispatch the resources?

No.

Some are, in fact it is often cheaper to have a system monitored by a security alarm company, however the rollout of the new WFAM system by the CFS will now mean it's cheaper to have it monitored by CFS rather than a security company or MFS.

I think bittenyakka was referring to all fire and security systems, so I would say his statement is correct in that most alarms are not monitored by the CFS...  I can't see private homes approaching the CFS to monitor their alarms when security companies will do fire and security in one package...

On the original thread subject, is it possible for MFS MDTs to receive a page from a WFAM and be responded that way? (Even though that test page had no MFS resources listed...)

[24P]

Crankster, does it really bother you that much what appliances go to calls in other's areas? Or do you have shares in the shopping centre?

[pumprescue]

1 truck to a fire alarm is a bit lame, isn't the reason people pay for a fire alarm is to have a prompt and correct service. Then again 1 truck is better than the captain in his ute or the group officer in the command car in shorts and
t-shirt (seen it happen).

[Darius]

it has been said many times before not to jump to conclusions based on the pager messages you see on a decoder.  Why are some of you assuming no MFS appliances will be automatically responded?  Only elizabeth MFS are responded by pager, so perhaps I wasn't clear enough when I said MFS have a firemon server too, the implication I meant to be drawn was that MFS will receive the alarm too and so do their normal turnout procedures (ie. MDT / station broadcast etc).  As for who exactly will be responded, you will need to ask those with the paperwork, but I presume if you don't already know then it's not your business.

[Crankster 34]

Crankster, does it really bother you that much what appliances go to calls in other's areas? Or do you have shares in the shopping centre?

It only bothers me because every day we see an inappropriate response to many calls throughout the state. As Pumprescue said it is not unusual for a captain in his ute to attend to an alarm - reset it and put back a stop before the appliance arrives - yet no one in any Regions question it - even though they are aware of it happening.

I'm not saying that Salisbury would be doing this as I know they are a good brigade, but if you don't have MFS on the initial response then you are certainly not providing the best service to the community in that area.

Yes Darius I am aware that MFS have the Firemon monitoring server in their comcen, however based on the information the response message is displaying on the screen I can't see how they would know they need to initiate an MFS response as well - happy to be corrected though.

[safireservice]

Crankster, does it really bother you that much what appliances go to calls in other's areas? Or do you have shares in the shopping centre?

It only bothers me because every day we see an inappropriate response to many calls throughout the state. 

Does it bother you that the MFS also "downgrade" their alarm responses at times too? Quite often during the day you see 1 or 2 appliances going to alarms when there is usually 3 or more. Works both ways.

[Crankster 34]

Does it bother you that the MFS also "downgrade" their alarm responses at times too? Quite often during the day you see 1 or 2 appliances going to alarms when there is usually 3 or more. Works both ways.

Not really, MFS SOP's are signed off by the Chief Officer and state that during the day they have a standard response of two appliances to alarms - this is because during the day there is more chance of someone noticing an actual fire and calling in the job - then the response would be increased to a standard structure fire response (which is different to a fixed alarm response anyway). If the MFS Chief Officer is happy with this then good for him, he can always guarantee an appliance will respond from somewhere so I don't have a problem with this.

Unfortunately the CFS don't have any Fixed Alarm response in the SOP's, therefore we must follow the response SOP's relating to structure fires which states that 2 appliances must respond to any 1st alarm or initial response. It also states that at least one of those appliances must be carrying CABA (although states nothing about having to have BA operators) .

I can't see that any brigade can guarantee two appliances 24/7 therefore at least two brigades must be responded to any of those incidents that require a 2 appliance response.

Then again Regions don't seem to give a stuff about brigades not responding appropriately and seem happy to keep the current ad-hoc approach to alarms.

[mack]

brigade/group/region have signed off on the response, so on there head be it i spose.

we have SOPs in place that are broken every day.

[SA Firey]

Unfortunately the CFS don't have any Fixed Alarm response in the SOP's, therefore we must follow the response SOP's relating to structure fires which states that 2 appliances must respond to any 1st alarm or initial response. It also states that at least one of those appliances must be carrying CABA (although states nothing about having to have BA operators) .
(Quote)

Oh I think you should acquaint yourself with SOP 4.5 Automatic Fire Alarms then

[Crankster 34]

I have read that - however it doesn't really state how many trucks you should respond to Fixed Alarms - all it says is that the first truck goes to the panel and the second truck (if applicable) to the booster. What does 'if applicable' mean, does it mean if the brigade feels like responding two trucks, does it mean that only respond a second truck if the premesis has a booster, does it mean if you are in an MFS EMA area respond four appliances.

Hence the fallback to SOP 2.1 which has the Initial Resource Response Schedule. This is the closest thing I can find that discusses with any clarity how many appliances you should respond to an incident.

[5271rescue]

If you have a second truck that can do boosting???

[CFS_Firey]

If you have a second truck that can do boosting???

I think the point was more about whether a second truck was supposed to be responded, rather than what capabilities it had...

[rusty]

Whilst the premises may have chosen to connect to the CFS for financial reasons (a much cheaper connection than through the MFS), the premises still lies in a Mutual Aid area, and so Fire Service response is subject to the Mutual Aid agreement. Under that agreement the response must be a Dual, SIMULTANEOUS response by both CFS AND MFS.
It is unfortunate that the CFS failed to take the MA agreement into consideration when connecting this alarm. Hopefully, over the next couple of years, the MFS will also transition to wireless alarm technology, and be able to integrate all of the WFAM alarms into their system. At last, the ability to intercept a false alarm when mechanics are working, and prevent multiple pager activations when resetting a circuit doesn't hold... especially in the middle of the night...

[SA Firey]

Its all academic now that SOCC have moved in with MFS so there will definitely be a dual response now.

[Crankster 34]

RESPOND TO FIRE ALARM SPRINGBANK PLAZA, CNR WATERLOO CNR RD & KENSINGTON WAY, BURTON *CFSRES:, FIP ALARM *WFAM*, 10/07/2007 02:21:09 CFS Salisbury Response

So does anyone know if MFS went to this job last night

[24P]

Unsure but if they didnt it was up to them as they (CFS) have to book in with adelaide fire on 093 dont they? So MFS would have known about the call?

[safireservice]

RESPOND TO FIRE ALARM SPRINGBANK PLAZA, CNR WATERLOO CNR RD & KENSINGTON WAY, BURTON *CFSRES:, FIP ALARM *WFAM*, 10/07/2007 02:21:09 CFS Salisbury Response

So does anyone know if MFS went to this job last night

Why dont you ring them and ask?