Experiance on of OIC

[Hicksflat14]

I say fake it till you make it kids. As long as you are willing to take responsibility for the outcome of your decisions good or bad. Faking it and brown nosing together = how to become an officer in some brigades....

[Evac]

Hicksflat14.... its idiots like you and that sort of stupid ideology that in areas of the state brings the service into disrepute. Pull your head in and start to portray the service in the light that it deserves!

Duty of care..... if you don't have the skills or training to carry out that duty and you stuff up.. even if you are prepared to take responsabilty.. you will be hung and dried.

[bittenyakka]

what exactly is the responsibility of the OIC. other than to protect life, property and the environment?

if a FF is running a house fire and sends a BA crew inside and obeys all SOP so has an emergency crew etc.. and something goes wrong what exactly can he be charged, or accused of?

[RescueHazmat]

Rescuehazmat.... 20 years cfs experience, 6 as a brigade lieutenant and 6 as a DGO. i think i have had some exposure..... All in a reasonabley active urban / rural area.

Then you should know how hard it can be for F/F's to gain the experience of an OIC when the "same" people always do it...

I have a question, and its not a narky one, but did you ever allow a firefighter under you, or a senior, to step up and be incharge of a "less full on" job while you were in an officers role in the brigade?

If yes, then good work, we need more officers that are prepared to do that... - If not, then it is Officers like yourselves who are disallowing those in the service to be able to get the exposure and experience they deserve... The day will come that there isn't an officer about and like I said before, the firefighters will stand round shrugging their shoulders..

- Like I said, if you did, then disreguard my second comment.. 

[5271rescue]

As an OIC,you also have to be a team player and not one that loves to belt out the orders,remember a good OIC is only as good as the men/women that have respect for him/her. Just because you have a yellow or red hat does not mean you sit back and watch your crew work,get in and help....

[Pipster]

I'd have to disagree Bill.... when you take on the role of OIC, you need to stand back & watch your crew, watch & manage the overall situation....being the OIC doesn't preclude you from helping your crew if they are struggling, but if you get too involved in doing the work with your crew, you risk loosing the big picture view, which can potentially be very dangerous.

In my book, the role of the OIC will vary to a certain degree, depending on how big the incident / how many resources are involved.

The OIC is responsible for assessing the situation, (including risks to the crew), planning a course of action,  organising / directing the crew to carry out that plan give sitreps, calling in additional resources as required, liaise with other crews / services as required....

Having a good crew makes the job easier, in that you don't have to give step by step instructions to your crew...and leaves more time to do all the other things an OIC needs to do!!

With a simple incident, it looks like an OIC doesn't have to do much at all, but in whether people realise it or not, this above process is what actually occurs....

Pip

[fireblade]

Good point Pipster, as OIC you have to be slightly detached from the hands on work and consentrate on your role as incident controller or as an OIC of a RCR appliance as the "Rescue Officer" for all the reasons Pipster listed.

The hands on between you and your crew is your SNR F/F in that role they should have a greater understanding of your action plan relayed to your crew and a higher level of skills than your fire fighters to make sure it happens.

But I do agree with the comment of some Officers just belting out instructions like a power control freak makes you look unprofessional and like you have really not got a grip on what your doing. Plus it just destroys morale.

[Hicksflat14]

To start with I think people are getting confused between an OIC (officer in charge) and an IC (Incident controller). The IC usually starts off as an OIC, but a OIC is not necessarily an IC.

Now Evac what are the skills and training required to be a OIC? The CFS has (only recently) had a strike team leaders course and a sector commanders course. To my knowledge there are no OIC courses. The officer/leadership courses have had very little to do with managing an incident and the AIIMS course has removed any practical incident management. So please do tell me about any CFS course and where this skill comes from to be an OIC? (I don't even think there is a duty of care course for fire fighters either)

Secondly you will be hung and dried if something goes wrong regardless of your perceived skill or this factious training. In fact the more perceived skill you have the more you will be hung out to dry as the legal system CAN have it both ways.

Thirdly by not rolling an appliance (with a crew but no "officer") someone also has to have made the decision not to roll. This could just as likely get people hung and dried.

Your having a slightly holier then thou approach to this. That being that one day you cant, then the next day you can as you have the skill and training (that you have magically gained somehow or from a factious course). I cant speak for everyone here but most people I know think to themselves after a call that it could have been done slightly better of differently. That is, as time goes by people get more experience and learn. Shock horror! people progressively learn. They aren't perfect they make mistakes and with hindsight they would have done something differently. So I think getting stuck in and giving it your best (fake it till you make it, and taking responsibility for your best effort) is a good approach to a skill that is so esoteric and practically gained.

As for becoming an officer well we all know the politics that exist in some brigades. Brown nosing and faking it can, and does, cut the mustard. Particularly when the brigade is a young crowd.


PS SAFF has nothing to do with portraying the Emergency services in a good light.

[Zippy]

Thirdly by not rolling an appliance (with a crew but no "officer") someone also has to have made the decision not to roll. This could just as likely get people hung and dried.

Default/Upgrade the incident to next nearest brigade. simple easy way to not get hung and dried .

[5271rescue]

Pip, I agree with you but there are times as the OIC that you should and could help your crew if they are busy or need help,give them a hand then get back to being the OIC....

[Pipster]

I agree Bill...as an Officer, you shouldn't just stand back, and let your crew struggle along - eg you give someone a hand dragging a hose, as everyone else is busy doing something else...but you have to be careful not to get too tied up doing crew work, and miss what you should be seeing....

If you have to constantly do the hands on stuff, then you either need to learn to stand back & put your hands in your pocket, and do the OIC job, OR you need more crew to assist, if you don't have enough!!

Pip

[5271rescue]

I found it hard last night at a MVA as i was the OIC I had to stand back but at the same time I wanted to be in there helping the team.....

[Pipster]

And that was what I found the hardest when I became an officer - stand back, put your hands in your pockets, and watch....

Pip

[probie_boy]

Okay, before this whole thing gets any more heated I think i should point out that my other post (the Stop press one) was a bit of sarcasm. My captain really isnt a bad person and I was just messing around. it was meant to be more of an inside joke with him and a couple of others but it kinda backfired. Yeah, rescuehazmat he didnt really say that.

back to convo now.

[RescueHazmat]

Probie, I would like you to know, that due to the "sarcastic" post, I am going to make the following statement.

I openly apologise for the comment (which was worded poorly on my part) in regards to your captain.  I, believing I was sticking up for you as a younger member who 'seemed' to have been very unfairly and un-justly done by,  had typed my post in your defence in a way which read very poorly. A post which was only written in an attempt to stick up for you as a member of the service which you represent. For this I apologise to the member which the post was slightly directed too.. Now, knowing more of the story, I will remove my post.

May I add, that maybe when posts are sarcastic or "not meant" in the future, it is made well known.  - As this is a perfect example of not being able to understand ones 'sarcasm/emotion/intent' etc).



Again, my sincere apologies.

[probie_boy]

Probie, I would like you to know, that due to the "sarcastic" post, I am going to make the following statement.

I openly apologise for the comment (which was worded poorly on my part) in regards to your captain.  I, believing I was sticking up for you as a younger member who 'seemed' to have been very unfairly and un-justly done by,  had typed my post in your defence in a way which read very poorly. A post which was only written in an attempt to stick up for you as a member of the service which you represent. For this I apologise to the member which the post was slightly directed too.. Now, knowing more of the story, I will remove my post.

May I add, that maybe when posts are sarcastic or "not meant" in the future, it is made well known.  - As this is a perfect example of not being able to understand ones 'sarcasm/emotion/intent' etc).



Again, my sincere apologies.

I appreciate you sticking up for me rescuehazmat. Even though it wasn't needed, thankyou.

Heres a lesson people, NEVER use sacrasm in text based conversations. IT DOESN'T END WELL

[SA Firey]

OK is everyone  now