NEW CFA 4000lt tanker

[rescue5271]

I along with some others in region 5 spent sunday driving and testing the new cfa tankers which are auto/4wd/hold 4000lt of water and one has access from the cab onto the working deck. very nice to drive off and on road and the crew protection system  was very good and they tell us that it works in a burn over. I have taken some pictures and will upload them to cfs yahoo groups.

[strikeathird]

They don't sound too bad...    How are there fire fighting capabilities...  E.G - Pumps specs... Stowage, hose lines??

If you email me the pictures, I can post them up in this thread if you like..

tickfordpower@hotmail.com

[CFS_Firey]

When you say 'Tanker', do you mean the equivalent of our 24's? (or 44's) Because I can't see much use in a Tanker that carries only 400 litres... even with the 4WD benefits...

[rescue5271]

These two prototype tankers are doing the tour of CFA regions and have also been over to SA to show CFS along the border.

 1) mack 4000lt heavy tanker comes with lots of locker space and room for two CABA sets,live hose reel with 30 meter's of 25mm hose,dead reel with 400feet os 38mm canvas hose,three locations to run the pump, fitted with ROP in cab and rear,heatsheilds are double layered,two monitors on working area. made by skilled(cfa) ballarat.crew can move from cab to working deck with out stopping the unit.


 1) M.A.N. 4000lt heavy tanker,comes with lots of locker space room for CABA, live 25mm hose reel,dead hose reel,remote monitor which can be operatored from inside cab also comes with a 18mm high pressure hose reel(100ft long) which runs at 2000psi.


both tankers have a fixed suction hose that is auto rewind under the tanker,both tankers have great crew protection in cab with spray bars all over the cab,tyers,windows and can be operated from inside cab. both are 4wd auto and went very well off and on road.

If I was buying I would order the mack,as it looks like a fire appliances but the workmanship is great,these units will be back in region 5 in june.

[strikeathird]

[djwiz]

The 2 prototype Heavy Tanker's are touring CFA Region 4 until Thursday with a quick stint in Mt. Gambier this morning. Our Portland Brigade OIC Ops. Officer Gary Harker has been in charge of their visit to this region and so his reliever (Ops. Officer David Ferguson from Warrnambool) and our brigade's 2nd Lieutenant Geoff Place have been driving them around to the different groups for their evaluation sessions aswell as taking plenty of photo's which I hope to get my hands on and place on our brigade web site in the near future.

Anyway, here are the specifications:

VARLEY Heavy Tanker on MAN 18.285 LARC (4x4) Crew Cab Chassis:

* Engine - 206kW (280HP) turbo-charged, intercooled, 6 cylinder diesel.
* GVM - 15T (de-rated from 18T GVM).

Fitted with:
* ZF 5 speed automatic transmission c/w hydraulic retarder and provision for 2 live engine dependent PTO outlets.
* Constant all wheel drive two-speed transfer case.
* Hub reduction front and rear axles (standard).
* Rear axle fitted with differential lock
* Air conditioning
* ABS
* Air horn
* Power mirrors
* Bullbar
* Cabin internal roll bar
* Electric cab tilt
* Seating for 6 crew
* A vehicle/crew spray protection system (with in-cabin controls)
* Control console includes remote control for monitor.

Firefighting body:
* Water tank -3,750 litres capacity (750 litres reserved for a vehicle/crew spray protection system which cannot physically be used for firefighting).
* Pump GAAM MK325/Hatz diesel engine.
* Priming pump - electric.
* Live delivery hose reel - electric rewind.
* Live suction hose reel (permanently connected) - electric rewind.
* Dead hose reel - electric rewind.
* Water hose reel, high pressure electric rewind (supplied from QuikSpray high pressure pump driven by main pump engine c/w electric clutch).
* Class B foam induction system c/w 50 litre foam tank and electric fill pump.
* Magnum front spray
* Monitor risers (2x)
* Hydrant boost feeders (2x)
* Pump, suction and boost bleed valves.
* Combination ladder - Little Giant.
* Folding ladder - QuikStow 3.7M (stowed in locker.)
* Roll bar fitted to front of tray.
* Park and response mode LED emergency lighting.
* LTS Siren (Wail, Yelp, Mix, PA)
* CFA Motorola MCS2000 Mobile Radio
* 24V electrical system with 4 battery's (one backup/fail-safe)
* In-cabin Battery isolator
* Lockers to suit stowage requirements.
* Top access crew platform lockers (one insulated).
* A vehicle/crew spray protection system (with crew area controls).
* Additional water level gauge in crew area pump control panel.
* Rear towing eyes (Two)
* Remote control monitor - Elkhart sidewinder.
* Storage items - as selected by sub-working group.

My experiences/comments/comparisons:
* Truck has very slow pick-up especially up-hill even though it's engine specs are slightly better and it has 250 litres (KG's) less water (MAN are supposed to be looking into this as it should not be the case.
* Controls are European so everything's backwards (indicators, retarder control, manual windows wind opposite direction)
* Remote controlled electric monitor with controls in the cab and crew area - pull up at a rubbish hopper fire and never leave the cab for the firefight (our previous Leading Firefighter told great stories about the R.C. monitor on their Scania Heavy Pumper at Morwell). This monitor was broken by the Region 4 Ops. Manager yesterday (won't move up and down), apparently it was only replaced Monday and will be replaced/repaired again.
* Plumbing is very complicated apparently. 250 litres less water.
* Suction hose reel found not to work as effectively as SEM/Mack prototype (needs repair), but I prefer electric rewind wheel system on this truck for a quicker pack up.
* 100 Metres of High pressure hose line which is useful, but if there's only one it should be fitted to the rear not just the left. Brigades with plantations have given very positive feedback about this because they'll be able to pull up, not have to bowl out hose for such great distances and have plenty of pressure to reach the crowns of the trees. Rolling the hose back up is as simple as pushing a button.
* CFA asked the working party to try something different with an improved future in mind and the working party decided to trial Storz fittings for inlets/outlets. That's not to say that if we went with the Varley we couldn't stick with CFA 3 or 5 thread fittings.
* Several LED response lights on front of vehicle, very effective, for some reason they have decided to stick with rotating beacons at the rear though? (i.e. LED's are proved to be effective here and space-saving).
* Have they considered roller shutter locker doors? Swing doors do save locker space but make it harder and less safer to have (multiple) locker doors open at once.
* Overall this vehicle is fitted out more like a Pumper/Tanker, (which is not at all unexpected since this is Varley's first Tanker design. They have churned out several pumpers though.) as an Urban firefighter with rural fringe, this appeals to me, but if the intention is to place these trucks in areas based solely on their higher volume of water or 4WD capabilties then this might not be necessary or relevant.

SEM (Skilled Equipment Manufacturing) Heavy Tanker on Mack Midlum MV15HD (4x4) Crew Cab Chassis.

* Engine - 201kW (270HP) turbo-charged, intercooled, 6 cylinder diesel engine (upgraded from 158kW (215HP)).
* GVM - 15T

Fitted with:
*Automatic transmission - Allison MD3060 c/w hydraulic retarder and provision for optional live engine dependent PTO outlet.
* Constant all wheel drive - two-speed transfer case fitted with centre differential lock. Rear axle fitted with inter-wheel differential lock.
* Air conditioning.
* ABS (standard).
* Ventilated disc brakes - air actuated (standard).
* Air horn
* Power mirrors
* Electric windows (front & rear)
* CD player (oh yeah!)
* Brush bar (MACK Option)
* Electric cab tilt
* Rear crew access door
* Seating for 5 crew (rear middle seat folds up for rear door access)
* Cabin internal roll bar
* Roll bar fitted to rear of cabin.
* Garmin GPS128 unit
* A vehicle/crew spray protection system (with in-cabin controls)
* Control console includes remote control for front spray nozzle.

Firefighting body:
* Water tank - 4,000 litres capacity (including 750 litres dedicated for a vehicle/crew spray protection system which cannot physically be used for firefighting).
* Pump GAAM MK325/Hatz Diesel engine
* Priming pump - electric
* Live delivery hose reel fitted with swivel base electric rewind.
* Suction hose tray with permanently connected flexible suction hose.
* Class A foam Robwen HF500A injection system c/w slide-out drum rack for 2x 20 litres Carboys (with suction dipstick fitted to one drum).
* Class B foam induction system c/w slide-out drum rack for 2x 20 litre Carboys (drum holder only - suction dispstick supplied for use at rear inductor).
* Remote controlled front spray.
* Monitor risers (2x)
* Hydrant boost feeders (2x)
* Pump, suction and boost bleed valves.
* 'Little Giant' combination ladder.
* Manual hose winder (stowed in locker) which is attached to the rear of the appliance for rolling up 25-38mm hose.
* Park and response mode LED emergency lighting.
* LTS Siren (Wail, Yelp, Mix, PA)
* CFA Motorola MCS2000 Mobile Radio
* 24V electrical system with 4 battery's (one backup/fail-safe)
* In-cabin Battery isolator
* Lockers to suit stowage requirements.
* A vehicle/crew spray protection system (with crew area controls).
* Single rear towing pin.
* Storage items - as selected by sub-working group.

My experiences/comments/comparisons:
* Excellent engine performance and pick-up (World-leading Allison 6-speed Automatic Transmission really helps here too)
* MACK Crew Cabin (read 'Taj Mahal') is very spacious and luxurious compared to MAN however one less crew seat in rear of cab.
* Rear Access door provides quick exit from crew area for safety (in case of a burnover) or to save time having to stop the vehicle during firefighting operations.
* One of the disc brakes has been warped on the front left hand side and so the driving was restricted to our 2nd Lieutenant who's been using the retarder carefully until this is fixed.
* Extra 250 litres of water compared to Varley
* We were ready to pump in 60 seconds with the live suction hose reel setup on this truck (practically just as quick as setting up for tank fill from a hydrant).
* Class A Foam injection system. Varley doesn't have A class at all.
* No B Class injection system, has to be inducted.
* Foam drum slide-out trays are where the crew area access ladders are either side of the vehicle, when they're slid out, you cannot use the access ladder anymore. I can't forsee a problem here though since you should only need to slide out to retrieve/replace foam carboys and their's always the ladder on the other side or the cabin rear access door.
* Monitor is SEM patented stainless steel with Unifire V18 nozzle, manually operated (so no cabin control), stored in the crew area.
* Have they considered roller shutter locker doors? Again, swing doors do save locker space but make it harder and less safer to have (multiple) locker doors open at once.
* Their is a riser on the front bullbar of this truck which they intend to develop into a front spray that would cover around 5 metres in front and to the left of the truck for safe passage of the vehicle and rapid running grass fire knockdown. Would have liked to have seen it in action for this visit.
* LED response lights for front and rear, bigger and less quanity than the Varley but still very effective.

Anyway, fingers crossed one of these trucks ends up at Portland once the evaluation is completed!   I won't go in depth with details but the CFA are also trialling Scania Heavy Pumpers (6 built and in use at stations already), a Scania Mk5 Heavy Mid-mounted Pumper with cabin BA seating (was at Dandenong and placed into service by CFA but UFU complained so now it's at Berwick all-volunteer station nearby - photo's on the Dandenong Fire Brigade web site at http://fire.bmjenkins.com.au/ ) and a Low Profile Light Pumper on a Ford F250 cab chassis (at Bornia Fire Station) for accessing low clearance areas such as underground carparks.

[CyberCitizen]

I like the MACK.

What's the length of the fixed suction hose???  Can an extra lenght be added if needed?

Room for only two CABA sets.  Was there any space space, eg could we fit another 2?

[JamesGar]

I don't mind the concept, and believe that a pumper/tanker has been talked about around the CFS traps (another thing not to hold my breath on!).

However, personally would like to see this appliance with a much bigger pump. They running automatic gear boxes, so running a Rosenbauer 750gpm pump, which would enable pumpand roll, could easily be done (and not to much more dollars), I'd also go mid mount with 2x 90m HP lines.

Like the concepts with cab access to crew deck (nice to see Shane from naracoorte can stand up in the back too), a pity to be losing a 6th seat though!

[rescue5271]

There is room for a larger CABA locker but keep in mind this is a rural unit and weight will also be a issue,yes the hard suction is 9meters long not sure if you can add another hose or not.as you can see from my picture the crew is able to stand up and walk through the door to the deck
I am sure if you wanted to you could add a single rear seat behind the driver but lets face it how many time's do you roll with fuuly crew and there is also that big killer OHS.


From what the guys where saying all new CFA appliances will be fully auto and that is the way they want to be,they have taken them off road into sand and hills and both have proven that they can do the job. I understand that the got bogged at rainbow(VIC) and the local brigade put that unit and its training officers through the hoop but all in all it past.

There is also room to add a larger pump if needed,but this is a rural appliance only.

[Mike]

There has obviously been a lot of thought put into some of the concepts on these vehicles. Weight and physical size could pose minor issues, but i believe the benifits far out-weigh. Pretty sure we could make them look just a little nicer though  

As a rural appliance i see no problems with only carrying 5 crew, there sould be just enough to keep everyone occupied.