Author Topic: Forestry Fire Towers (Read 18623 times)

littlejohn · « **on:** March 15, 2007, 09:38:46 AM »

Could some knowledgable person tell me; when fire towers are quoting a smoke sighting, do they use magnetic or true bearings?

Thanks!

Blue · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2007, 10:43:48 AM »

Research tells me that fire towers here use an alidade, so it is a non-magnetic reading and I guess they would be calibrated to true north. I'm not sure it makes much difference if it is magnetic or true north, as they whole lot is triangulated with bearings from other towers, and if there is a magnetic difference then it would only be a few hundred metres if that and when you're travelling to the site you'd just look for smoke within this zone of error anyway?

steved01 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2007, 12:09:34 PM »

Forestry Fire Tower allidades are aligned to grid north, thus allowing plotting on maps.

Hicksflat14 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2007, 12:12:48 PM »

Blue I would suspect they use grid north which isn't true north or magnetic north. Mainly because the turnout would be done based on a map.

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/aboutus/reports/misc/north.html

But as you said it probably doesn't make that much difference as they would be lucky to get it to within 5km at the best of times.

Although not Forestry run, I think Mt Lofty tower is past its used by date. Back in the day when the hills population was small and communications slow it was useful.
These days there is a significant hills population and 90% carry mobile phones so the tower is both slower and less accurate. As a result the tower call in a lot of dust sightings or call the location in wrong. This splits the response that was going to the initial (correct) location called in by someone closer with a mobile phone 5 minutes before.
So its had its day and now I think its less then useful indeed just spewing out misinformation. Even if the info is correct Hicks Flat has been bitten by bad tower calls and now considers tower info questionable at best and always goes with the first lot of info from the local caller.

Blue · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2007, 03:29:50 PM »

There are many dust sightings here too, but the difference is that other towers can be asked if they see anything in that area, and from a different angle dust often can be identified as just that. Plus dust doesn't have a tendency to build like smoke plumes do...

I agree the fire tower isn't as usueful in the Adelaide Hills as it once was.

We've been to a 'fire' at night recently that was called in by someone on their mobile and it turned out to be a well-lit low-lying cloud

So misinformation comes from all sorts of sources. Just as long as they were intended as emergency calls and people aren't being malicious.

I'd hate for a bystander (or a fire tower) to hesitate before putting in a call because we were annoyed at well-meaning false alarms - always better to turn back crews that aren't needed than call for them once the fire is well and truly going.

5271rescue · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2007, 03:52:59 PM »

Hey littlejohn why dont you guys go and look at one of the towers,go up and have a look how they work would be a great training session. Mind you there not that far from penola....... But for the best view MOUNT LOFTY TOWER sure is the go.. Must go back up there again soon.

littlejohn · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2007, 05:57:07 PM »

Like hell. You won't get me up one of those.

Would love to see how they work, but my arse likes to stay close to the ground.

Blue · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2007, 07:36:46 PM »

I wonder if the bearing accuracy is compromised once they get a sway up in strong wind

5271rescue · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2007, 07:39:56 PM »

No you just drink more beer

mack · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:02:37 PM »

HIck - the tower still quite regularly calls in fires well before anyone on the ground notices them. I mean sure there is the odd dust sighting

but there is also the FSA tower in Mt Crawford forest to confirm sightings as well.

Quote

But as you said it probably doesn't make that much difference as they would be lucky to get it to within 5km at the best of times

depending on the operator at the time, there are some very accurate calls.

the tower still has its place in the service i believe... but perhaps more training is required by some members to make the information more reliable all the time....

Camo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:10:49 PM »

How much would it cost to keep the tower running for a year?

As it is run by volunteers that would keep costs down.

Is the tower owned by the CFS? or Leased? What about the land? Rent?

Cost of the radio licences? Power?

If the tower is owned by CFS and all that costs is the power to run it and the lease on the GRN radios i wouldnt see it going past $5000 a year. Its probaly worth more then $5000 to the people of the hills?

Scania_1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:56:07 PM »

I believe the tower would be owned by national sparks, as it is on their land in Cleland. The rent would be $0 I reckon.

littlejohn · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:52:10 PM »

I wonder what the forestry companies incur in fire prevention costs in the south east? (Rhetorical question)

8 or 9 fire towers (guessing the number) staffed by contractors?
A spotter plain on fire ban days?
Bomber plane?

The question marks are becuase I don't know if I'm anywhere near the mark. But all these resources benefit more than just forestry land.

The towers seem pretty good at triangulating fires in the flat SE. Between them & the spotter, most fires get picked up fairly quickly.

Camo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:25:28 PM »

But i guess the way they justify it is by saying without these resources Forestry SA would go broke because of the losses incurred due to fire damage.

I can think of 8 towers but i might be missing some

Mt Gambier
Penola North
Comaum
Mt Edward
Mt Benson
Mt Burr
The Bluff
Furner

There isnt many areas these towers cant see which is handy.

Then there is the cost of the Firekings, staff, spotter plane etc etc.

Would be worth millions but could save billions!

Scania_1 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:25:51 AM »

And more importantly Cam could save lives....

5271rescue · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:48:19 AM »

You have to admirer the staff/ volunteers that sit in these towers over summer they do a great job,sometimes they are isolated work alone and must have great patients to sit there all day.. I have been up a few towers over the years and the guys and girls that work them are always happy to see a new face or show of there work. Its not always easy and if you don't mind working at heights and the tower swaying it could be a great job over summer...

Blue · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2007, 11:14:14 AM »

Quote from: ath on March 17, 2007, 09:25:51 AM

And more importantly Cam could save lives....

Yeah, a nice spin-off for the community from forest companies trying to save plantations

I think there is a wider collective (which includes CFS) that supports the development of, and access to, forest company resources for fire fighting. A small percentage is also supported by Treasury. So a number of organisations must realise the wider benefit.

I admire anyone who can sit for many long hours in a fire tower, I think I'll pass. It'd be like those pole sitters they used to have at Glenelg. But it's not like you can curl up for a kip or get totally engrossed in a good novel - you have to be on your toes. I wonder how long it took Bluff Tower to see the recent fire just down the hill from them - and how long they waited around up there as it moved up the slope toward them

Camo · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2007, 12:33:54 PM »

Think it was a case of

"Fire Number 1 Bearing **** Km less than 1 and im outta here!"

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2007, 09:09:10 PM »

When the tender for Bluff Tower comes up again im gonna apply for it cause i've been up in that tower and its alot better than those towers such as Mount Burr,Mount Edward and Penola North as its closer to the ground

Camo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:07:46 PM »

What do you mean tender robert34?

As far as i know it is owned by Forestry SA and is operated by Forestry SA employees.

Pipster · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:10:01 PM »

Tenders for running some of the Foresty Towers appeared in various newspapers some time ago.....I reckon it has come up a few times over the last few years.....

Pip

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:27:51 PM »

Thats right pip the tender means someone to run the fire tower during fire season

5271rescue · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2007, 07:53:27 AM »

well robert you will be safe on one side of the bluff for a few years if you did get that job.......

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2007, 11:45:28 AM »

Im hoping the job does come up soon Blinky

although i gotta balance it out with my CFS work cause once you spot a fire theres no leaving the tower to respond

littlejohn · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2007, 02:53:11 PM »

It's hard to know how you would be able to undertake much, if any CFS work through the fire season Robert.

My very vague understanding is that the towers are manned by contractors, who no doubt have to be up there every day over a certain fire danger level (moderate? high?), which equates to most of the fire season.

You'd have to ensure that any CFS jobs you attended wouldn't affect your ability to man the tower, and as all the good ones this year happened through the day (the ones I can remember anyway), you'd not get much hands on action.

Mind you, it's an important job and a single tower person can have a hell of a lot more influence on a fire than a single fire fighter.