new level 3 gear (LION)

[Firefrog]

When SAMFS turnout they will be wearing PBI. Cat up a tree-PBI, MVA-PBI, Fixed Alarm-PBI, Structure Fire-PBI, Grass/scrub-PBI pants/Nomex shirt.

I would like to see the written policy if anyone can dig it up. Surely there is a policy for a service of 16000 firefighters.

[TillerMan]

Again it's another case of buy now and think later....

Like i have said before everything should have been written out and planned way before thinking about buying the first set.

I would have thought you would find a manufacturer that could make the gear to suit our needs, not us change our needs to suit the manufacturer.

For example why not make the gear with a really easily removable liner

[strikeathird]

When SAMFS turnout they will be wearing PBI. Cat up a tree-PBI, MVA-PBI, Fixed Alarm-PBI, Structure Fire-PBI, Grass/scrub-PBI pants/Nomex shirt.

I would like to see the written policy if anyone can dig it up. Surely there is a policy for a service of 16000 firefighters.

Here Here.   If it's good enough for one service, why not ours ??!

[Broadside]

I have heard that lion apparel are trying to get the PBI approved for use at grass fires. It is being tested without liners so it can get approved.

[oz fire]

WE WROTE the specification - yes CFS wrote it - tech services, VFBA and a select group of volunteers. WE, CFS brigades tested the gear, provided feedback and from that a specification was finalised and a tender called.

CFS is the driver, not the manufacturer - so maybe WE need to push our issues quickly, up the chain - to see if there can be some common sense applied - remember a number of our decision makers are active responders, who ride the trucks, attend jobs, put the wet stuff on the red stuff - the rest ........... has beens, sorry may have been there once

[Wagon 1]

Its called a bunch of people that have not fought fires since Noah was a lad, so anything new and fancy is BAD news, I will wear my PBI where ever I damn well please. Sometimes you just want to smack these people, every other country in the world wears PBI to any call they go to, why the hell is the CFS any different. Is this policy in writing, for that matter is anything the CFS does in writing. Until I see it in writing signed by the Chief with information based on FACTS then the phrase "bite me" comes to mind!!

Phew, glad I got that out of my system.

[Mike]

i agree with what your saying Wagon... but the truth is that if something does happen on the fireground, i want to make sure im going to be looked after.

The fact of the matter is that if anyone thinks nothing will happen, they they are nieve. Our GO is not one for wasting resourses, and if we were told PBI was the go for everything, so be it.

Think of the possible ramifications. Not only do you get raked over the coals for it, but so does every one above you. Personally I have a lot more respect for the other officers than to do that to them....

[Wagon 1]

But it defies logic, so what CFS are saying is that we are the only fire service in the world that is doing it right in respect to only wearing PBI for structure fires, I mean, I won't wear it for grassies as its hot, but I can't see a problem for all the others, if that was they case, then why the hell did we get it in the first place. I understand your respect for the rules, but if we all acted like sheep then we would be in an awful lot of trouble.

You do what you feel is right, I will do what I feel is right, and what I feel is to fight for a reason, or an explanation of why my 1200 dollar set of kit is so good for wearing in structure fires, but is bad for everything else, and why my brother firefighters in SAMFS, who I work with nearly every day, can wear it. Why are we so special.

[CyberCitizen]

Structure Fires, Fixed Alarms, MVA's This I Think Is Acceptable To Wear The Gear To But Grass Fires You Wouldn't Want To Its Just To Dam Hot.

[TillerMan]

Our group has justed made a policy that it is only to be worn to structure fires...

What's really funny is that we had a grass fire the other night and i wore my nomex and took my pbi with me but the pbi got dirtier from being pushed around the floor of the appliance than if i was wearing it.

[Wagon 1]

I have no problem with not wearing it to grass fires, but the rest of it is just stupid. I know it costs a lot, but so what, I am not lugging two sets of gear unless I have to.

[CFS_fire32]

Having worn my PBI recently to two house fires, overall, I am very impressed with the gear from an operational point of view.  It feels very protective, and has some very nice little features that excel it past the nomex gear: The padded knees for one are great when you are kneeling down for extended periods on an external strucural defence - especially when you are carrying around extra weight.  The large "collar" (I can't remember if it has a proper name) really gives good protection, especially if you don't have a flash-hood.  Lastly, it was good to be able to leave my pants on and hose them down afterwards and not get even slightly wet on the inside.  Cleaned up very well, especially since it got reasonably dirty during overhaul.

All in all, great gear!
However, there are still some issues by the sound of things regarding the extent of its usage. In my group, it is for STRUCTURAL fire-fighting use only.

[Wagon 1]

Yeah because people with the rank are scared of it, and its cost, it was the same deal when Nomex first came out, there was massive arguements in my brigade and group, first off in 1998 we were only going to by a set per BA set and a large set. That idea lasted about 5 mins, give it time, the novelty will wear off and we will wear it all the time. It just annoys me that our brothers in SAMFS can wear it all the time, whats the diff!!

[strikeathird]

Having worn my PBI recently to two house fires, overall, I am very impressed with the gear from an operational point of view.  It feels very protective, and has some very nice little features that excel it past the nomex gear: The padded knees for one are great when you are kneeling down for extended periods on an external strucural defence - especially when you are carrying around extra weight.  The large "collar" (I can't remember if it has a proper name) really gives good protection, especially if you don't have a flash-hood.  Lastly, it was good to be able to leave my pants on and hose them down afterwards and not get even slightly wet on the inside.  Cleaned up very well, especially since it got reasonably dirty during overhaul.

All in all, great gear!
However, there are still some issues by the sound of things regarding the extent of its usage. In my group, it is for STRUCTURAL fire-fighting use only.

Did i see something about a flash hood in there !!      hehehe


U weren't the fire fighter in the photos on the promo website, from down south wearing PBI and a f/hood..??


I have voiced this before, and will again.  I think it is utterly stupid that the PBI cannot be worn to such incidents as car fires, MVA's (as the risk of fire is very real!)  -  etc.  The only thing I would say no to, is Grass Fires.  Due to the amount of heat.  But I would over come that, buy having crews in Nomex work shirts, and PBI pants !!  Incase the grass fire becomes involved in a structure, u can just throw on your jacket then !!

But, i can never see it happening!

[corocfs]

i dont really care about this whole issue, as my group doesnt seem to be getting PBI...

however; in my opinion it seems that the PBI was originally designed to be worn whenever a firefighter is required to wear BA.. hence only given to BA operators.

therefore i would wear it wherever there is the possibility of having to wear BA;
Carfires
Structure Fires
MVAs (risk of carfire)
Fixed Alarms
Grassfires

i understand the whole theory of taking it as a second set of gear in the truck in case you need to wear BA.... but honestly, this is crap..

[strikeathird]

I agree with the concept of having to wear it at all BA incidents, and in theory all incidents could turn B.A related, however do not think it would be the best idea to wear the full set at a grass fire, due to your body temperature going through the roof !

However, this could be easily fixed with a Nomex work shirt etc.

All other incidents, I think it should be worn at ! 

1) Why buy it, if its not going to get worn
2) Why the HELL can our fellow Fire Service wear it, and we cannot!

Do cfs realise they are giving members the S**** by stuffing them around like this !!  Let the "spies" take that up the chain of command !   

MY VIEW ONLY
 

[oz fire]

Firetruck - your group made the decision to stock pile nomex, in an attempt to stall the issuing of PBI - mmmmmm makes you wonder who's safety are they concerned with - the fire fighters or the directors of a company who sells nomex and are on the Group Executive!

Not sure that it makes sense to compromise fire fighter safety because of personal views - although I'm sure they don't attend any jobs where offensive fire fighting will be undertaken ....... house fires Eden Hills & Belair, Blackwood Cold Stores, Woolworths Mitcham - maybe the Group executive thinks it's fire fighters and officers are expendable!

[Wagon 1]

More likely that that group wasn't the one's to think of it and introduce it, but your a braver person than I!!

[fire03rescue]

Why do people keep bashing us in the Sturt group, we have made lots of improvements to the CFS like many other brigades and groups
As for the comments
More likely that that group wasn't the one's to think of it and introduce it – What a load of Cr*p
And
your group made the decision to stock pile nomex, in an attempt to stall the issuing of PBI - mmmmmm makes you wonder who's safety are they concerned with - the fire fighters or the directors of a company who sells nomex and are on the Group Executive!
The reason for this was (which I have asked why) the concerns for using it in summer time.
This has nothing to do with who we have purchased equipment from
And
Maybe the Group executive thinks its fire fighters and officers are expendable! What a stupid comment that was oz fire

[Firefrog]

Let's Play nice!

And we should be careful of speculation, the facts are often different to the perception. 

[strikeathird]

Wouldn't the Company involved with the buying of the product, if involved in CFS like that be a conflict of interest....To the degree that you were talking bout Oz ??


Oh, &

Do group officers get paid ?



I have heard conflicting stories over the years.....



....Just wondering and all.....

[oz fire]

Why do people keep bashing us in the Sturt group, we have made lots of improvements to the CFS like many other brigades and groups

fire03rescue - relax, I remember the introduction of 2 piece PPE - yes the old Mitcham Hills Group were laughed at but CFS followed suite. I remember the introduction of zipped boots, again we were all laughed at but CFS followed. Mmmmm council appliance with 90mm lines, built to meet the specific area, pumpers, 3 sets of rescue equipment, O2 on each front running pump, high training levels, a training building - not knocking the Sturt Group, but no longer believe the comments the Executive are making, nor do half the brigade members or officers. The Group has a proud heritage of introducing many, many items over the years under excellent leaders (Ray Collins & Dave Pearce to name a few) unfortunately though this has stalled - maybe they should continue to look forward, it previously lead as it equipped it's fire fighters with the best - that is no longer the case and the only ones suffering are the fire fighters, who aren't now using the best equipment available, but are reliant on technology that was the fore front five years ago ............ what do you prefer, Nomex with a liner for offensive operations or PBI Gold ..... I know my choice.

[corocfs]

Oh, &

Do group officers get paid ?



I have heard conflicting stories over the years.....



....Just wondering and all.....

eh??

i have heard rumours of several CFS groups having group officers recieveing honourariums... however i believe CFS stamped this out a while ago.

i cant confirm either way... purely going on rumors i have heard

[OMGWTF]

our group officer did recieve honourariums.. and absoloutley none of the firefighters in the group knew...

can you imagine how absoloutely p**sed we were???

not only did they get group cars, which were used for whatever they felt like doing, driving to the shops, taking kids to school, driving to work (for another fire service) and sitting in the car park all day, with free fuel cards, compliments of CFS... but they also had mobile phone bills paid (50% i think)and a few other benefits...

ggrrrrr... not happy.

[CFS_fire32]

Having worn my PBI recently to two house fires, overall, I am very impressed with the gear from an operational point of view.  It feels very protective, and has some very nice little features that excel it past the nomex gear: The padded knees for one are great when you are kneeling down for extended periods on an external strucural defence - especially when you are carrying around extra weight.  The large "collar" (I can't remember if it has a proper name) really gives good protection, especially if you don't have a flash-hood.  Lastly, it was good to be able to leave my pants on and hose them down afterwards and not get even slightly wet on the inside.  Cleaned up very well, especially since it got reasonably dirty during overhaul.

All in all, great gear!
However, there are still some issues by the sound of things regarding the extent of its usage. In my group, it is for STRUCTURAL fire-fighting use only.

Did i see something about a flash hood in there !!      hehehe


U weren't the fire fighter in the photos on the promo website, from down south wearing PBI and a f/hood..??

If you look closely, you will find that the BA operator wearing the flash-hood is actually wearing nomex.  There is no BA operator wearing PBI with a flash-hood at those incidents.